Match Thread: Swans v Man U.

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Look, the only area of the team that has NOT improved is the area Laudrup has not tinkered with alot! which tells us something really.

Maybe he feels its good enough
Maybe its an area that would need drastic change to affect things,therefore its been left alone for now hoping other parts of the team can mask problems
Maybe he has to softly make the needed changes as to not offend numpties fans that love the old guard


Personally I think he knows what we need there ,laudrup constantly talks about having his strikers and midfielders being able to help out the defence in set piece play ,he knows we are not quite good enough there .
When was the last time rangel won a header at a corner ? anyone know the answer to that ?

Our defence can be awesome but it has terrible off days too, which must be a right ball ache for the management !!
 
£30 or 40 Million has got nothing to do with yesterday, but poor defending has, we simply were not at our best at the back, and poor concentration was the reason we got caught, anyway we payed 2 Million for Michu, and when we finally sell to who ever, for £30 or 40 Million, does he become any different? Was Andy Carroll worth £50 Million, I've never bought into this reasoning, but what Manu did have in their favour which we obviously lack, is experience, that's the difference in the two teams, they have 25 years of experience at taking teams apart, we have 2 years at this level, so you'd think that all our players would be concentrated on the job at hand, but clearly some were not, and against such an experienced side like Manu, it is simply sacrilege!............<ok>
 
<cheers> Shaper.

NJ: I'm quite prepared to have a go at our players/Manager etc when warranted. I just think the positives outweighed the negatives yesterday. Yes, that may be a curious reaction when we've lost 4-1 but if you apply some perspective you'll probably come to the same conclusion.

Value of players has EVERYTHING to do with it because those with a high value tend to be the better ones. News flash! They have players who are a lot better than ours. Yes, our defence made mistakes but that is going to happen a lot because they are not world class. They are not infallible so get used to it.

I'm watching Palace v Spurs now and the difference in value of each squad is huge - and it shows. Doesn't mean Palace can't win it but you get the point.

But over the season I predict we're going to have a lot more good days than bad based on what I saw yesterday. <ok>
 
Knackeredjack said:
<cheers> Shaper.

NJ: I'm quite prepared to have a go at our players/Manager etc when warranted. I just think the positives outweighed the negatives yesterday. Yes, that may be a curious reaction when we've lost 4-1 but if you apply some perspective you'll probably come to the same conclusion.
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Perspective! I'll give you some perspective, kairdiff are above us after one game! Anyway, thought you were never coming back, you miserable sod.............<laugh>
 
Fair enough KJ but of course people have different perspectives on things don't they ? ive not raised any issue with people who think losing 1-4 at home to an average Mna utd team is perfectly acceptable,even though the team is stronger,more experienced and is tactially aware of what utd are all about. If that's your view its fine.

My view is that we are making things harder for ourselves when we don't need to ! we need to work on those lapses of concentration now as it doesn't wash when they start to happen more often then not!

The defence has been consistently suspect from March onwards, and its exactly the same players then as it is now, maybe these boys think they are nailed on for a starting spot ? maybe they are far too relaxed in their positions ?

Lets be honest here

Rangel or Jazz ?
Ash or Monk ?
Chico or Amat ?
Ben or Taylor ?

There is only one position where the player is unsure to start and they are both equal in terms of possibility to start games, maybe this is a bigger issue than we thought.


Ive stated in my original post about how the positives are good but even you can see that all the positives in the world are not worth anything if you keep conceding stupid goals ! bony could score loads of goals but if we are also shipping them at the other end the positive of Bony gets out weighed by the negative of our defensive lapses,surely you can see this ?
 
DPJ: I love you too much <hug>

And I wouldn't be too concerned about our friends up the road. <ok>

NJ: Yes, defensively we need some work and mistakes were made. Like I said, that will happen this season. As for "an average Man utd team" - this is the same team that won the League at a canter last year so they're not average at all. They weren't great on the day I agree but when you have RVP and Wellbeck (probably the best English striker at the mo) in your team you will hurt the opposition. And they did.

It comes down to average Prem standard defenders vs world class front men. There's only one winner really.
 
It's been stated above, but the one thing that I didn't like about yesterday was Dyer's last 20 minutes. He just plain dogged it. Now I am not sure whether we had played our last sub by that point or not. But, he was either too knackered to move, which speaks badly about his conditioning; or, he just said **** it and shut down - which is not acceptable against anybody. When you're right back is going past you going forward and getting back and you are loitering without intent around the half way line then it's time to put on the tea lady. If he was carrying a knock and couldn't be sub'd then I take back what I have just said otherwise WTF.

Money is not a differentiator at this level - what idiot clubs are prepared to pay for the elite of the elite is irrelevant to the rank and file Prem players that play for Prem clubs - who would / could never command that sort of money.

I think we are missing the match ups at the back - it's not chico/amat and ash / monk - forget Monk, it's Ash / Chico / Amat, pick 2 out of three. After yesterday, Amat has as much a claim to be alongside Chico as does Ash - note I put Chico down as our strongest CB.

The one positive I take from yesterday - Bony scored from Pablo. As clinical a clip to finish a tidy pass as you could ever want to see. We will see more of this. And I liked Canas - as for the rest - we need to do better next weekend. Money is ballocks. We're not here to make up the numbers. We are here to compete and survive and ultimately win stuff - or what's the point. We play to win, and we play for 90+ minutes, we focus and concentrate for 90+ - no excuses please.
 
Nice post yankee, im not too concerned with Dyer,he moved around a lot in that game and by then we had indeed used all our subs.

What puzzles me a bit on this forum is the amount of people bigging up the Swans pre Man utd and then coming out after a hammering and saying "well,what do you expect,its Man utd !" that just seems idiotic to me , these are the same people who have gone from saying they expect us to win or draw to saying its no problem to lose to utd we are not expected to do well.

Kj, I know they won the league but that was more by default IMO , the other teams were so badly inconsistent that utd kind of just strolled it by being average . Van persie and welbeck scored good goals when the game was pretty much already won though. We all know Van persie is awesome but we as a team have learned to play against players like this on a weekly basis, nothing could stop his 2 nd goal that's why he is one of the best but stopping his 1st goal, that should have been meat and drink for our defence im sorry to say ! <ok>
 
Quite clearly our defenders let us down yesterday. They made mistakes that top class strikers will gobble up... and they did. In every other aspect of the game we matched United. We had more possession, passed it at least as well as they did, had more shots at goal and more corners. And yes, the difference eventually was the ability of a £30 million striker and another who will become a regular England international.

Now I'm going to touch on something that no one else has, something that bothered me pre-season when I mentioned it on this board. That "something" was the quality of the opposition during our build up. We played some teams that back in the day even I could have played for. What sort of preparation was that for our defence? They barely broke sweat because they hardly had anything to do. They strolled through these games gently improving their fitness and didn't have much to do of any note until we played Reading and maybe the lower league teams. Hardly conducive to making them match sharp was it? Compounded of course by the unfortunate absence of Chico. Malmo was a step up but, overall, our defenders didn't play one game that stretched them, didn't play one game that remotely prepared them to play a team as skilled and experienced as United. If it was Laudrup's choice of friendlies, which I'm sure it was, I'm afraid he has to carry the can - he is human after all and will make mistakes. I believe this was one.

As a unit our defence was pants yesterday and plenty of good, detailed analysis of it has already been made on this thread. But what did we expect when we played some teams at the standard of Airbus? (no disrespect to an honest team from the level I played at). For all the pressure our defenders had to deal with, I wouldn't mind betting that we could have selected a back four, even five, from members of this board and still won!!

In summary, I feel that our general performance was sound but I have a sense of disappointment because I honestly thought we had a decent chance of turning them over. Some fabulous strikes put paid to that. The thing is, as a team we have to get back on the bike and put in a strong performance in the next couple of games to regain our confidence. To those who have intimated that we barely deserved to be on the same pitch as United, utter nonsense!!!! We were the better team for long periods of that game. To our defenders, from now on in, I would say one word: f*$* ing FOCUS!!! Ok, two words. :biggrin:
 
Yankee_Jack said:
It's been stated above, but the one thing that I didn't like about yesterday was Dyer's last 20 minutes. He just plain dogged it. Now I am not sure whether we had played our last sub by that point or not. But, he was either too knackered to move, which speaks badly about his conditioning; or, he just said **** it and shut down - which is not acceptable against anybody. When you're right back is going past you going forward and getting back and you are loitering without intent around the half way line then it's time to put on the tea lady. If he was carrying a knock and couldn't be sub'd then I take back what I have just said otherwise WTF.

Money is not a differentiator at this level - what idiot clubs are prepared to pay for the elite of the elite is irrelevant to the rank and file Prem players that play for Prem clubs - who would / could never command that sort of money.

I think we are missing the match ups at the back - it's not chico/amat and ash / monk - forget Monk, it's Ash / Chico / Amat, pick 2 out of three. After yesterday, Amat has as much a claim to be alongside Chico as does Ash - note I put Chico down as our strongest CB.

The one positive I take from yesterday - Bony scored from Pablo. As clinical a clip to finish a tidy pass as you could ever want to see. We will see more of this. And I liked Canas - as for the rest - we need to do better next weekend. Money is ballocks. We're not here to make up the numbers. We are here to compete and survive and ultimately win stuff - or what's the point. We play to win, and we play for 90+ minutes, we focus and concentrate for 90+ - no excuses please.
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Some one buy Yankee a drink please, top post this, and I concur completely!...................<cheers>
 
Agree Ivor, I touched on the very same thing on another thread with regards to the defenders thinking they were awesome because they conceded only 1 goal in pre season,which as we know counts for nothing really.

At least you are admitting your disappointment, many others are now just pretending the game was always going to be a utd win with us having a small chance of a result. the pre game predictions show that not one poster on here went for anything less than a draw,most going for a win, that tells you the level of confidence come people had, well either everyone was unrealistic or the Swans let us down in that game, most predictions will be varied, not one of ours had us down for a loss, going on utds form it was fair to assume we could have got something so to get a hammering you have to ask where we got it wrong, answer was at the back <ok>
 
"To those who have intimated that we barely deserved to be on the same pitch as United, utter nonsense!!!"

Don't think anyone has intimated this at all but the harsh truth is that they have a plethora of world class players in their ranks and we probably don't have one. Of course that doesn't excuse a lack of effort but when defenders make their inevitable mistakes they get punished.

It's called reality.
 
ivoralljack said:
Quite clearly our defenders let us down yesterday. They made mistakes that top class strikers will gobble up... and they did. In every other aspect of the game we matched United. We had more possession, passed it at least as well as they did, had more shots at goal and more corners. And yes, the difference eventually was the ability of a £30 million striker and another who will become a regular England international.

Now I'm going to touch on something that no one else has, something that bothered me pre-season when I mentioned it on this board. That "something" was the quality of the opposition during our build up. We played some teams that back in the day even I could have played for. What sort of preparation was that for our defence? They barely broke sweat because they hardly had anything to do. They strolled through these games gently improving their fitness and didn't have much to do of any note until we played Reading and maybe the lower league teams. Hardly conducive to making them match sharp was it? Compounded of course by the unfortunate absence of Chico. Malmo was a step up but, overall, our defenders didn't play one game that stretched them, didn't play one game that remotely prepared them to play a team as skilled and experienced as United. If it was Laudrup's choice of friendlies, which I'm sure it was, I'm afraid he has to carry the can - he is human after all and will make mistakes. I believe this was one.

As a unit our defence was pants yesterday and plenty of good, detailed analysis of it has already been made on this thread. But what did we expect when we played some teams at the standard of Airbus? (no disrespect to an honest team from the level I played at). For all the pressure our defenders had to deal with, I wouldn't mind betting that we could have selected a back four, even five, from members of this board and still won!!

In summary, I feel that our general performance was sound but I have a sense of disappointment because I honestly thought we had a decent chance of turning them over. Some fabulous strikes put paid to that. The thing is, as a team we have to get back on the bike and put in a strong performance in the next couple of games to regain our confidence. To those who have intimated that we barely deserved to be on the same pitch as United, utter nonsense!!!! We were the better team for long periods of that game. To our defenders, from now on in, I would say one word: f*$* ing FOCUS!!! Ok, two words. :biggrin:
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Ivor that issue had crossed my mind a few times, hence my post #256, regarding the fact that they were back in the premier League with a bang, not sure if Laudrup was thinking to avoid injuries in pre-season, by playing easy opposition? but we should be playing some top teams too! Good post mate as usual.............<ok>

Post #256-
I think the 'stronger grip' is really needed by our defencive back four, that's the real lesson and reality of what happened yesterday, and I'm sure the penny has dropped this morning with our back line, that they are back playing in the Premiership! - dragonphill
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You say "reality" KJ but if that's the case why did you predict a 2-0 win for the Swans ?

Arn't you contradicting yourself a little bit? along with some other posters on here I might add .

If all that world class was relevant why did all the Jacks on here go for a Swans win or at least a draw ? I mean everyone knew of the world class players they had before they played us yesterday right ?
 
Knackeredjack said:
"To those who have intimated that we barely deserved to be on the same pitch as United, utter nonsense!!!"

Don't think anyone has intimated this at all but the harsh truth is that they have a plethora of world class players in their ranks and we probably don't have one. Of course that doesn't excuse a lack of effort but when defenders make their inevitable mistakes they get punished.

It's called reality.
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So we are just making up the numbers then, are we? Don't agree with that at all, didn't we get a decent result last season, and to my way of thinking over the last two seasons we more than matched them, so to go on about so-called (Rooney <laugh>) £30 or 40 Million players is just distracting from the real issues, and is not constructive to our development!

Can you imagine Laudrup on Monday in training, saying, "Sorry lads, but you had no chance of winning you were up against Manu's £30 Million Strikers!...........<laugh>
 
Norway-jack said:
You say "reality" KJ but if that's the case why did you predict a 2-0 win for the Swans ?

Arn't you contradicting yourself a little bit? along with some other posters on here I might add .

If all that world class was relevant why did all the Jacks on here go for a Swans win or at least a draw ? I mean everyone knew of the world class players they had before they played us yesterday right ?
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I had us down for a 2-1 win due to the fact that we now had a decent Striker and had strengthened our midfield, and based on our previous close games with Manu previous seasons, even many Manu supporters thought a draw would have been good for them!
 
"You say "reality" KJ but if that's the case why did you predict a 2-0 win for the Swans"

Because I've always believed we can beat anyone on our day, that's why. There's no contradiction here. I also said that we would only win if we were clinical in front of goal because with the likes of RVP they could play badly and win. That's exactly what happened, so in fact I was spot on.

My point about world class players is valid. It's not a question of 'making up the numbers'. Laudrup is realistic and knows that "our leaue starts at 8th" (that's a direct quote) because he knows that if you have truly world class players in your team you're going to be top 6. We don't. Probably not one. Therefore, it's not that surprising when your Prem standard defenders make their mistakes the world class strikers will take their chances. That too is exactly what happened.

Of course we can beat the likes of Man U, Chelsea, City etc on our day but every player has to be at 100% for 100% of the game whereas their players can put in an average performance with their strikers only needing one chance and that's it, game over. That's the difference and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
 
And I had us down for a draw...and we are disappointed arnt we ?

Why did we pick those scorelines ? because we felt that Utd were weaker and we were stronger than last season, a season where we earned a draw here and basically played them off the park up there where the ref was the 12th man for them !

At least we are being honest in our appraisals Dragon! its one thing just to say they won because they had better players but we know this isn't the truth, they won because we gifted them soft goals and their "world class" player scored a beauty that turned it into a hammering.

It wasn't a 1-4 game but it was a game where utd didn't need to graft hard because we handed them the keys for victory early in the 1st half from poor defensive discipline, world class had nothing to do with the defeat and people should forget about that one IMO.
 
RVP's first goal - I doubt many would have scored that but Ash should have got his head on it. Then again he's not a world class defender so will make mistakes. To be fair, anticipating that strike at that power and pace was a big ask. 2nd goal poor defending. As Laudrup says, that was the killer. 3rd goal - outstanding. 4th goal - outstanding.

'Gifted'? Hardly. But it certainly applies to the second goal so I see where you're coming from in that sense.
 
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