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Blue Potato said:
As would I. Ox should be a reserve and Naby is unreliable, one week good and one week bad.

Hendo and Milner are not spectacular but they work hard and always perform. You know what you're getting with them. I'd start H&M over O&N too.
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I'm sorry but disagree. They don't always perform. I really don't understand where this narrative has come from - I guess it's because they run around a lot, shout and point a lot and put in a few strong challenges.

For the record, I have no problem when using one of them to play alongside Fabinho and Thiago. But it's when Klopp actively chooses both of them to start in the same midfield, that's where the issue is. It does not work.

And whilst I understand the frustrations around Naby's injuries, the fact is he has the highest points per game record in the squad - combined with the team scoring more goals and conceding less whilst he's on the pitch. Could be a coincidence but he goes about his business in an understated way.
 
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Anyways, the Naby argument is done - he needs to be sold because he's physically unreliable and Klopp simply doesn't trust him. Milner seems to be on his way out this summer and a decision needs to be made on Ox.

Jones is an interesting one - definitely talented but I dont know what his best position is ... yet. He also needs to learn how to release the ball quicker.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
What was bizarre is that it felt like Naby would share Thiago's minutes on the LCM - no one would bat an eyelid. It makes sense.

But then chooses Milner to play there instead? It's just so strange.

He doesn't trust Naby so may as well sell him. I would get rid of Milner, Ox, Naby and if we're being ruthless, Hendo should be going as well. (not in one window, of course).
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For me You've commented on the advanced right side a number of times. Naby is flexible but imo his best attribute off the ball is reading and intercepting high up so RCM would work with someone locking down the centre with fabinho.

Keita is good but theres little balance to it with keita trying to do that job and henderson running about overlapping and letting trent run into the middle.

In other words they are all too similar.

thaigo offers passing and sitting and play making which is fine, it can be a double pivot with fabinho to enable a more advanced CM join the press. In fat I'd like to see

Fabinho Thaigo
Keita
​
as the midfield.

this would then require trent to stop wandering about and stay wide as robertson does and then ketia and firmino would patrol centrally to press with salah and mane wider.

My second choice is

.........................Fabinho thaigo
.........Elliott

This would then have the energy from elliott running about and allow trent wander about if klopp wants that.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
I'm sorry but disagree. They don't always perform. I really don't understand where this narrative has come from - I guess it's because they run around a lot, shout and point a lot and put in a few strong challenges.

For the record, I have no problem when using one of them to play alongside Fabinho and Thiago. But it's when Klopp actively chooses both of them to start in the same midfield, that's where the issue is. It does not work.

And whilst I understand the frustrations around Naby's injuries, the fact is he has the highest points per game record in the squad - combined with the team scoring more goals and conceding less whilst he's on the pitch. Could be a coincidence but he goes about his business in an understated way.
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well mate if you look at who's played in the CL klopps turned to the ould lads and won all 6 games. Kicking and muling the ball out works.

When sides sit 10 men back they don't but then again trent standing in the middle making the pitch a full 1/3rd narrower doesn't help either.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Anyways, the Naby argument is done - he needs to be sold because he's physically unreliable and Klopp simply doesn't trust him. Milner seems to be on his way out this summer and a decision needs to be made on Ox.

Jones is an interesting one - definitely talented but I dont know what his best position is ... yet. He also needs to learn how to release the ball quicker.
Click to expand...

nobody knows what to do with jones. he needs to be slotted in one position by klopp and worked on. its clearly LCM but he need then to clear to control games, have more vision about him and defensive nouse. Its not LW can he hasn't the pace. Its not and attacking role as i think elliott will have that
 
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Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Anyways, the Naby argument is done - he needs to be sold because he's physically unreliable and Klopp simply doesn't trust him. Milner seems to be on his way out this summer and a decision needs to be made on Ox.

Jones is an interesting one - definitely talented but I dont know what his best position is ... yet. He also needs to learn how to release the ball quicker.
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Jones very much seems a utility player (Much like that Milner who is leaving so could be his natural successor). There is probably no position on the field that we don't have a better option than Jones, but I almost feel like he could do a decent job anywhere.

Impossible to know how far Jones will develop, but I'd like to see him getting more time than Ox. He's at the stage now where he needs to be getting more hours.
 
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Jimmy Squarefoot said:
What was bizarre is that it felt like Naby would share Thiago's minutes on the LCM - no one would bat an eyelid. It makes sense.

But then chooses Milner to play there instead? It's just so strange.

He doesn't trust Naby so may as well sell him. I would get rid of Milner, Ox, Naby and if we're being ruthless, Hendo should be going as well. (not in one window, of course).
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Problrm is who is going to buy someone that’s injured 50% of the season and earning over 100k and will probably be wanting around 20-30m for? All wel and good saying sell him buy need someone to want him first.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
well mate if you look at who's played in the CL klopps turned to the ould lads and won all 6 games. Kicking and muling the ball out works.

When sides sit 10 men back they don't but then again trent standing in the middle making the pitch a full 1/3rd narrower doesn't help either.
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True but when I look at all the PL games we've dropped points in, it's been when we dont have Thiago + Fabinho or Keita + Fabinho.
 
InBiscanWeTrust said:
Problrm is who is going to buy someone that’s injured 50% of the season and earning over 100k and will probably be wanting around 20-30m for? All wel and good saying sell him buy need someone to want him first.
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This is where we need MITO's good pal Mickey Edwards (or no Julian Ward) to earn their keep!

Give Dortmund cash + Naby for Bellingham. Job done.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
We'll have to endure endless articles about how we monitored Jude for 2-3 years and was our number 1 target ... before signing for City, United, Bayern, PSG.
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yes but I can bet anyone we are not bidding for a 100mil+ player who will want 300k despite never having done anything in the game :)

In fact we monitored Jude Bellingham for 4 years prior to his move to dortmund in the fist place and were not prepared to pay birmingham 25mil for a 17 year old

Dortmund play the game all the time, they don't win anything usually and can by kids as they sell others.

Malan in for 30. sancho out for 75, this balances out the prior gamble
Can in as fat but cheap option and bellingham as the gamble for combined 48mil
haaland for 20mil but bring in 4 or 5 rejects like brandt and hummels as well. the gamble such as it is is covered as they move quicker.
daillo, witzel, delaney and sell pulisic and yarmalenko
Bought yarmolenko and several ovther gambles after selling dembele for a massive amount.

Its all just early gambles and guys who are good enough to keep them going in CL places without ever threatening bayern.

the difference between City, Liverpool and Dortmund is we want 23/24 year pl players that are no risk. they are more than willing take an punt on 18/20 year olds with good rep on basis of resale later.

our issue is we are then competing with city and cheslea for the same players and cannot get them so either we take more risk with the 20-25 mil 180-20 year olds and start being willing to sell OR we pony up the big fee.

the stand outs for dortmund, malan, bellingham, haaland, guerrio, witzel, hazard... theres always someone coming in.

The issue is theres always someone going and the core isn't strong enough to win the title.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
yes but I can bet anyone we are not bidding for a 100mil+ player who will want 300k despite never having done anything in the game :)

In fact we monitored Jude Bellingham for 4 years prior to his move to dortmund in the fist place and were not prepared to pay birmingham 25mil for a 17 year old

Dortmund play the game all the time, they don't win anything usually and can by kids as they sell others.

Malan in for 30. sancho out for 75, this balances out the prior gamble
Can in as fat but cheap option and bellingham as the gamble for combined 48mil
haaland for 20mil but bring in 4 or 5 rejects like brandt and hummels as well. the gamble such as it is is covered as they move quicker.
daillo, witzel, delaney and sell pulisic and yarmalenko
Bought yarmolenko and several ovther gambles after selling dembele for a massive amount.

Its all just early gambles and guys who are good enough to keep them going in CL places without ever threatening bayern.

the difference between City, Liverpool and Dortmund is we want 23/24 year pl players that are no risk. they are more than willing take an punt on 18/20 year olds with good rep on basis of resale later.

our issue is we are then competing with city and cheslea for the same players and cannot get them so either we take more risk with the 20-25 mil 180-20 year olds and start being willing to sell OR we pony up the big fee.

the stand outs for dortmund, malan, bellingham, haaland, guerrio, witzel, hazard... theres always someone coming in.

The issue is theres always someone going and the core isn't strong enough to win the title.
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We have the opposite - we have the same core and looking to run them into the ground. We need more Konate / Jota profile signings. Young enough, will take time to develop but will ultimately force their way into the first team.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
We have the opposite - we have the same core and looking to run them into the ground. We need more Konate / Jota profile signings. Young enough, will take time to develop but will ultimately force their way into the first team.
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well look at man city. there run them into the ground and theres getting the best out of protecting the performance.

Ederson - bought at 23
dias - age 24
rodri 25
aguero
silva

etc
etc

they buy them expensively but ready to go.

Konata and jota are fine signings. good price, good age, good ability to go right in. neither were developmental players.

however look at the flip side. minamino. like WTF. nonsense. origi hanging about for 5 years longer than he should. Ox not being moved. etc etc etc.

we need more focus on improving the side and less on resale value now.
 
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Jimmy Squarefoot said:
I'm sorry but disagree. They don't always perform. I really don't understand where this narrative has come from - I guess it's because they run around a lot, shout and point a lot and put in a few strong challenges.

For the record, I have no problem when using one of them to play alongside Fabinho and Thiago. But it's when Klopp actively chooses both of them to start in the same midfield, that's where the issue is. It does not work.

And whilst I understand the frustrations around Naby's injuries, the fact is he has the highest points per game record in the squad - combined with the team scoring more goals and conceding less whilst he's on the pitch. Could be a coincidence but he goes about his business in an understated way.
Click to expand...

With you on this, they shouldn't both start. However, I'd go one step further and say Milner should be backup only nowadays.
 
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Zanjinho said:
With you on this, they shouldn't both start. However, I'd go one step further and say Milner should be backup only nowadays.
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Agree. Hendo is fine on the right when he's carried by Thiago and Fab. But yeah, Milner is ok to come off the bench to put in a few challenges and kill the game.
 
Jan - Feb has always been an awful period for us. Let's see if we can buck the trend ...

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