LFC Stats and Analytics

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

fabinho is 28 now.

its clear the midfield needs updating BUT its not the only issue. It's clearly not right at the back compared to the heroics of kabak and phillips who actually did defend together.

VVD is not fit enough yet. he is even breaking a sweat this season. only time will tell if he gets back to his unsweaty, perfumed self after another preseason next year. IMo he's still not at the level he needs to be at.

Lol Phillips and Kabak did not defend well together mate. We didn't concede goals, granted, but we were giving up 3-4 big chances every game and relying on opposition missing the chances or Alison to save us.

When Fab starts alongside Naby or Thiago, we score more goals and concede less.

The defence isn't at peak levels but the midfield is the biggest concern

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Lol Phillips and Kabak did not defend well together mate. We didn't concede goals, granted, but we were giving up 3-4 big chances every game and relying on opposition missing the chances or Alison to save us.

When Fab starts alongside Naby or Thiago, we score more goals and concede less.

The defence isn't at peak levels but the midfield is the biggest concern

They defended together. **** players but covering each other.

what's different now with alisson making 1 on 1 save after save and us coughing up goal after goal after goal?

you started off just saying play one of those two at LCM and now its fabinho has to play as well?

the reality is none of them have been available enough. theres been little consistency in any of the 3 midfield slots klopp plays. what is consistent is no matter who plays when a side is top half they score off us regularly. its too simplistic to pin it on one line of 3 just as it was too simplistic to pin no scoring on one line of 3 last year. all players are at fault for these issue.

 

[Zanjinho]

We have 8 midfielders to play for 3 spots - yes on the surface that sounds like a lot. But the issue is that the 3 midfield roles are all different:

- DM - only Fab can play this to a good enough standard.
- LCM - sits in next to Fab, provides defensive stability and blocks out passing lanes but also help to control and dictate the game. Only Thiago and Naby can do this to a top level. The rest simply aren't good enough.
- RCM - more progressive and takes more risks. We are definitely stacked in this area.

Original point still stands then...

People have an obsession with replacements having to arrive as the other player leaves. Thiago IS the Wijnaldum replacement.

... apology accepted

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Original point still stands then...



... apology accepted

Lol my point still stands - if Thiago was supposedly the Gini replacement, that's poor squad management knowing that he's injury prone.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

They defended together. **** players but covering each other.

what's different now with alisson making 1 on 1 save after save and us coughing up goal after goal after goal?

you started off just saying play one of those two at LCM and now its fabinho has to play as well?

the reality is none of them have been available enough. theres been little consistency in any of the 3 midfield slots klopp plays. what is consistent is no matter who plays when a side is top half they score off us regularly. its too simplistic to pin it on one line of 3 just as it was too simplistic to pin no scoring on one line of 3 last year. all players are at fault for these issue.

Yes, Fab makes a difference but put him alongside a competent midfielder and we look a different team. The stats are plain to see.

The team isn't perfect and we're nowhere near as solid as previous seasons but this is the approach Klopp is taking - he wants us to attack more which will leave us more exposed at the back. The issue is that we also lose control when we dont have Thiago next to Fab.

 

[Zanjinho]

Lol my point still stands - if Thiago was supposedly the Gini replacement, that's poor squad management knowing that he's injury prone.

Seen rumours that we were seriously interested in Renato Sanches until he did his ligaments. He'd have been "a Wijnaldum replacement". Maybe we had planned something (not necessarily this) and it fell through?

 

[organic red]

Seen rumours that we were seriously interested in Renato Sanches until he did his ligaments. He'd have been "a Wijnaldum replacement". Maybe we had planned something (not necessarily this) and it fell through?

There were R. Sanches rumours around last summer or before maybe. Good player,strong as **** but could score a few more than he does.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

There were R. Sanches rumours around last summer or before maybe. Good player,strong as **** but could score a few more than he does.

And is also injury prone.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Ox and Naby's injuries haven't been that bad this season ... but it doesn't make a difference when Klopp still prefers to pick Henderson and Milner ahead of them ... Klopp needs to be ruthless

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[InBiscanWeTrust]

Ox and Naby's injuries haven't been that bad this season ... but it doesn't make a difference when Klopp still prefers to pick Henderson and Milner ahead of them ... Klopp needs to be ruthless

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Not sure your comment lines up with the charts you’ve shown. It just shows Milner is available more than unavailable, rarely starts and generally comes on as a sub (probably to add experience and see out the games).

Keita is less available. Starts more as a % then Milner but comes in less, mainly because when he’s come on as sub before doesn’t have as much impact and isn’t a defensive change which Milner is.

Not sure what your beef with henderson is? Guys always available, is captain and puts in solid performances. Of course he’s going to start the majority of games over ox who has 1 decent performance in 5 since his injury

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Not sure your comment lines up with the charts you’ve shown. It just shows Milner is available more than unavailable, rarely starts and generally comes on as a sub (probably to add experience and see out the games).

Keita is less available. Starts more as a % then Milner but comes in less, mainly because when he’s come on as sub before doesn’t have as much impact and isn’t a defensive change which Milner is.

Not sure what your beef with henderson is? Guys always available, is captain and puts in solid performances. Of course he’s going to start the majority of games over ox who has 1 decent performance in 5 since his injury

Starter or as a sub - Milner is trusted by Klopp, more than Ox or Naby and let's be honest, it's not warranted because the fella isn't good.

Hendo being captain shouldn't be a factor - he's not putting in solid performances. He's been very poor / bordering liability for almost a year now. At this moment in time, Ox is a better option for the RCM than Hendo.

With that said, Ox isn't a great option either so we're forced to wait for Elliot to come back or see if Thiago plays there.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Starter or as a sub - Milner is trusted by Klopp, more than Ox or Naby and let's be honest, it's not warranted because the fella isn't good.

Hendo being captain shouldn't be a factor - he's not putting in solid performances. He's been very poor / bordering liability for almost a year now. At this moment in time, Ox is a better option for the RCM than Hendo.

With that said, Ox isn't a great option either so we're forced to wait for Elliot to come back or see if Thiago plays there.

Milner is brought on to break up play, slow the game down and add a bit of experience. Holding onto a lead your not going to bring Keita on. Just doesn’t make tactical sense.

Completely disagree with Hendo. Kn the right hand side attacking he’s been very good this year. It was when he was on the left esrly season he was questionable. Problem is because he’s being asked to attack more he isn’t providing cover on the right like he used to but that’s not his fault. Klopp has changed the tactical side of things. You’ve even said this season that the left needs to be a more disciplined role because the right hand side midfielder is more attacking this year

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Milner is brought on to break up play, slow the game down and add a bit of experience. Holding onto a lead your not going to bring Keita on. Just doesn’t make tactical sense.

Completely disagree with Hendo. Kn the right hand side attacking he’s been very good this year. It was when he was on the left esrly season he was questionable. Problem is because he’s being asked to attack more he isn’t providing cover on the right like he used to but that’s not his fault. Klopp has changed the tactical side of things. You’ve even said this season that the left needs to be a more disciplined role because the right hand side midfielder is more attacking this year

Where was Milner's experience when he cheaply gave away the free kick that led to the Chelsea goal lol. We had so much 'leadership' and 'experience' with Hendo and Milner in midfield but we gave up a two goal lead. Experience is good if you still have the technical quality and not treat the ball like it's a hot potato. Lol Milner breaks up play - but he also breaks up our play as well.

Tbf - you could play anyone in RCM as long as you have Thiago and Fabinho holding. Hendo has combined well with Mo and Trent but unfortunately, he is a defensive liability. And even then, his attacking output is hit and miss.

And disagree on Naby - you want players like Naby and Thiago on the pitch because a) they press very well and b) they keep the ball. Keeping control is what sees out games.

 

[Zanjinho]

Milner is brought on to break up play, slow the game down and add a bit of experience. Holding onto a lead your not going to bring Keita on. Just doesn’t make tactical sense.

Completely disagree with Hendo. Kn the right hand side attacking he’s been very good this year. It was when he was on the left esrly season he was questionable. Problem is because he’s being asked to attack more he isn’t providing cover on the right like he used to but that’s not his fault. Klopp has changed the tactical side of things. You’ve even said this season that the left needs to be a more disciplined role because the right hand side midfielder is more attacking this year

Ironically, he does the exact opposite when introduced!

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Ironically, he does the exact opposite when introduced!

Lol bless him - I love Milner's dark arts though - he can foul and put in some meaty challenges. But what will help us win games and hold onto leads is control. Players who can keep the ball and play with a cool head.

 

[Zanjinho]

Lol bless him - I love Milner's dark arts though - he can foul and put in some meaty challenges. But what will help us win games and hold onto leads is control. Players who can keep the ball and play with a cool head.

Exactly. Despite his experience, he plays a debutant 15yr old on steroids!!!

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Ox and Naby's injuries haven't been that bad this season ... but it doesn't make a difference when Klopp still prefers to pick Henderson and Milner ahead of them ... Klopp needs to be ruthless

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in fairness ox had to play himself in and so did keita. I think context and timing is important here.

at the outset The euros impacted henderson and thaigo missed preseason so elliott got a big chance and did well. Naby got his chance at the start as well but didn't impress as much and so Thiago got in and then did well but had a 5 game injury and then covid and now another injury. Keita got back in but got injured himself.

Keita got his chances to come back in and did well but then went down with another injury, missed another 5 or 6 games and then hasn't got on bar as a sub.

Frankly despite you not liking him henderson has taken back his slot from elliott due to the kid's injury and was also put even at LCM and DM to accommodate the kid

everyone has had injuries and everyone has missed 4 or 5 games, ox being a bit part sub means he has not been injured but that doesn't means he should be starting either.

I'm not sure why you've gone after milner either, bar again you have an issue with him. he's filled in where needed basically. I wouldn't be picking ox over him ever as I have an issue with ox myself. I would be picking Kieta over him most games as a starter though but to shut down a game we have nobody willing to take a yellow like boring james milner.

Right now our Team for me is

Henderson Fabinho thaigo (if ever fit)
to be challenged by
Elliott Nobody Kieta

that leaves milner and ox and jones as spare players or guys who have not stepped up to convince me.

Obviously then we can start discussing the issues with that midfield and lack of ability to shut space and keep going for 90mins. Its clearly not there.

Ideally we would get elliott back in and fabinho would be rock solid for injury but neither are true right now.

There's certainly a case to flog off keita, ox and thaigo and then let Milner retire and Henderson go to grass in milners place on the bench. I know you've said many times you've no place at all for these guys but again the experience and drive and example to younger players for me is a very good reason to have a bit part player like henderson as he ages.



the decisions i want to see klopp make is to buy some midfielders and put jones into a position and develop him fully. I really don't think ox and ketia will improve our fortunes this season coming in and i think they'll just pull up or be anonymous or play in front of teams. I'd like keita to get a few games at CM but he's got to be fit to do so.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Lol bless him - I love Milner's dark arts though - he can foul and put in some meaty challenges. But what will help us win games and hold onto leads is control. Players who can keep the ball and play with a cool head.

its really not our game though. our game is play it to the forward who flick and trick and don't hold it up and either they lose it and we go win it back quick or they get a throw, free or corner or score.

Control is all well and good but tactical fouling is where we need to go imo

Our game needs a fernandinho. We all chase up in transition to get high and we need if we lose it to immediately foul to get our shape back. Imo its be far better for us to get those tactical fouls in than try control games where none of our forwards have that in their heads.

 

[Milk..]

Ox and Naby's injuries haven't been that bad this season ... but it doesn't make a difference when Klopp still prefers to pick Henderson and Milner ahead of them ...

As would I. Ox should be a reserve and Naby is unreliable, one week good and one week bad.

Hendo and Milner are not spectacular but they work hard and always perform. You know what you're getting with them. I'd start H&M over O&N too.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

What was bizarre is that it felt like Naby would share Thiago's minutes on the LCM - no one would bat an eyelid. It makes sense.

But then chooses Milner to play there instead? It's just so strange.

He doesn't trust Naby so may as well sell him. I would get rid of Milner, Ox, Naby and if we're being ruthless, Hendo should be going as well. (not in one window, of course).