Transfer Rumours Khazri

[clockstander]

I kinda get what you are saying, but I also think that the players "down tools" too easily and stop bothering, rather than working hard to prove the manager wrong.

Both players you mention have undoubted talent but chose to contribute nothing when the going got tough for them

Guess who I'm thinking of here, clue neither Lens nor Khasri, but your point is, as usual, valid, and well made.

 

[Disco down under]

I'd have happily taken six given the position we find ourselves in and the question marks over him. Anything more is a bonus. Good deal for me.

 

[Hefty fullback]

Aye and he might get a game against Yedlin? No?

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[jdsafc]

Guess who I'm thinking of here, clue neither Lens nor Khasri, but your point is, as usual, valid, and well made.

Cheers. At SAFC the list is longer than elsewhere because of manager churn and player recruitment.

 

[Dorset]

Still not seen any official confirmation that he has gone?

 

[The Norton Cat]

I kinda get what you are saying, but I also think that the players "down tools" too easily and stop bothering, rather than working hard to prove the manager wrong.

Both players you mention have undoubted talent but chose to contribute nothing when the going got tough for them

That's almost certainly true but surely the evidence for Khazri downing tools is based on him looking poor when he played under Moyes, which is understandable to some extent when he was playing irregularly and out of position to accommodate a much poorer player in Januzaj, and him stating in the French press that he wanted a move at the start of last season. Mouthing off in the press isn't going to endear him to Sunderland fans but I'm not sure asking for a move and being out of form due to lack of playing time are the worst crimes in the world.

 

[Brian Storm]

I don't really buy this stuff about him being overweight. If you look at photos of him when he was at Bordeaux he looked exactly the same.

He could have hung around after Moyes had gone and helped in a promotion push. In fact, if I'd have been in charge I'd have asked him to give us a season as he could been one of the best players in the Championship. But it seemed he didn't have the gonads for that so **** him. Still, it's a shame. He could and should have been a big player for us for several seasons but circumstances conspired against that possibility.

The club wanted and desperately needed some of his wages off the bill and he was going to play a higher level in a world cup year. Of course he went out on loan. Best for all involved at the time and I don't begrudge him that move just cause of Moyes putting him out in the cold.

 

[Brian Storm]

I'm always sceptical when players are branded as having a 'bad attitude'. Especially so if you believe the 'rotten core' theories as players with seemingly much worse attitudes appear to have been tolerated by a series of managers. It's natural that some people don't get on, especially with the egos flying around in professional football but this doesn't necessarily constitute a bad attitude. I often think that a lot of these theories are based on the old stereotype that foreign players are soft and 'not up for it on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke'. If the Premier League era has taught us anything, it's that foreign players are often more committed and more professional (e.g. di Canio) than their posing, preening domestic counterparts.
I think the truth of it is that Moyes wasn't a fan of Khazri and Allardyce wasn't a fan of Lens. And in both cases, vice versa.

Here lies the problem with our transfer policy over the Short period. Managers only given a year yet given money to buy expensive players only for them fall out of favour.

 

[Brian Storm]

I kinda get what you are saying, but I also think that the players "down tools" too easily and stop bothering, rather than working hard to prove the manager wrong.

Both players you mention have undoubted talent but chose to contribute nothing when the going got tough for them

But their managers have shown no faith from the off either. Shouldn't managers have a bigger obligation to make players brought in under other gaffers, whom the club have spent a lot of money on, work? Rather than throwing expensive players on the scrap heap cause on first meeting the player didn't show what they perceive to be enough respect, workrate or what ever?

I think they should personally. I think Chairman's should be hauling managers into the office and be reminding them of the outlay. Cause at times, Managers seem just as petulant as the players.

 

[The Norton Cat]

The club wanted and desperately needed some of his wages off the bill and he was going to play a higher level in a world cup year. Of course he went out on loan. Best for all involved at the time and I don't begrudge him that move just cause of Moyes putting him out in the cold.

I'm not sure that playing at Championship level would have had a detrimental effect on his chances of selection for a nation playing at the level of Tunisia. Wanting to play in the highest level in his adopted home country is understandable though given the season he'd had under Moyes.
I understand the financial situation under Short but asking for a season was hypothetical under other plausible approaches the club could have taken following relegation.

Here lies the problem with our transfer policy over the Short period. Managers only given a year yet given money to buy expensive players only for them fall out of favour.

Precisely. Very different managers (e.g. Advocaat vs Allardyce) with very different approaches were appointed. Short's scattergun approach to managerial appointments led to a scattergun recruitment policy. The director of football model should have protected us against that but Short didn't see it through.

 

[Brian Storm]

I'm not sure that playing at Championship level would have had a detrimental effect on his chances of selection for a nation playing at the level of Tunisia. Wanting to play in the highest level in his adopted home country is understandable though given the season he'd had under Moyes.
I understand the financial situation under Short but asking for a season was hypothetical under other plausible approaches the club could have taken following relegation.


Precisely. Very different managers (e.g. Advocaat vs Allardyce) with very different approaches were appointed. Short's scattergun approach to managerial appointments led to a scattergun recruitment policy. The director of football model should have protected us against that but Short didn't see it through.

But the Club wanted him out as well. Can't hold it against him when it suited both parties.

Everything about what we were doing was wrong at the time. Every manager who came in mindlessly discarded costly players with no thought to financial implications to the club. the ****ing chairman was burning through managers with the same frivolous attitude. There's no wonder we are where we are.

 

[The Norton Cat]

But their managers have shown no faith from the off either. Shouldn't managers have a bigger obligation to make players brought in under other gaffers, whom the club have spent a lot of money on, work? Rather than throwing expensive players on the scrap heap cause on first meeting the player didn't show what they perceive to be enough respect, workrate or what ever?

I think they should personally. I think Chairman's should be hauling managers into the office and be reminding them of the outlay. Cause at times, Managers seem just as petulant as the players.

If you believe the Secret Footballer, this can be a deliberate tactic adopted by some (less good) managers to instil fear in the rest of the squad. 'If x player isn't too good to be dropped neither am I, so I'd better keep my nose clean'

 

[Brian Storm]

If you believe the Secret Footballer, this can be a deliberate tactic adopted by some (less good) managers to instil fear in the rest of the squad. 'If x player isn't too good to be dropped neither am I, so I'd better keep my nose clean'

I can imagine many do that. That can't work in the modern era though can it? More so in the last 5 years than ever. Unless you're being funded by a sugar daddy it doesn't work cause even though there's more money in the game than ever, the margin for error tightens and consequences have become more severer. If managers are too stupid realise this perhaps their time in the game is approaching extinction.

 

[Disco down under]

If you believe the Secret Footballer, this can be a deliberate tactic adopted by some (less good) managers to instil fear in the rest of the squad. 'If x player isn't too good to be dropped neither am I, so I'd better keep my nose clean'

Orson Welles made that method of management famous. Happens throughout the world.

 

[The Norton Cat]

I can imagine many do that. That can't work in the modern era though can it? More so in the last 5 years than ever. Unless you're being funded by a sugar daddy it doesn't work cause even though there's more money in the game than ever, the margin for error tightens and consequences have become more severer. If managers are too stupid realise this perhaps their time in the game is approaching extinction.

Well, it's not the most sophisticated of approaches anyway is it? So I reckon you're right, that sort of approach must be dying out, or so you would hope. I can well imagine Moyes being like that though, with his unique blend of arrogance, ineptitude, and general out-of-touchness.

 

[jdsafc]

But their managers have shown no faith from the off either. Shouldn't managers have a bigger obligation to make players brought in under other gaffers, whom the club have spent a lot of money on, work? Rather than throwing expensive players on the scrap heap cause on first meeting the player didn't show what they perceive to be enough respect, workrate or what ever?

I think they should personally. I think Chairman's should be hauling managers into the office and be reminding them of the outlay. Cause at times, Managers seem just as petulant as the players.

They should certainly give them a chance, yes.
I do remember Moyes giving Khazri chances, and I also remember Sam playing Lens in a No10 role for a bit as well.
But I agree with the scrap heap bit - if they don't want to play the player then they should be duty-bound to sell the player rather than allowing them the clag up the wage bill in return for nothing

 

[The Little General]

Nobody has mentioned figures yet. I smell an undisclosed but some folk think we weren't budging from £10m which would be a nice 3-4m rise off the back of the world cup. Not sure if it's accurate though.

Ndong and Oviado are very close apparently.

Very close now ???
As in shagging each other