B
JT's day in the dock!
- Thread starter bluemoon2
- Start date
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And if you don't know then you cant convict a person. Better to let 100 guilty people free than convict 1 innocent person IMO.
I feel the defence made a mistake in not calling up a lip reading sceptic, that may have dispelled some of Ashley's evidence but also all of Antons and therefore the entire case.
At the end of the day this will fundamentally come down to which of the witness statements the chief magistrate believes is more accurate given the evidence highlighted by the prosecution. Who they will believe out of Cole and Ferdinand.
But there are definitely holes in Antons story which he may need to clarify
B
Billy Death JR
Guest
Yes but theres holes in Terry what he may need to clarify so far nobodys is innocent and noboys guilty
The Prosecution has to prove he is guilty the defence doesn't necessarily have to prove he innocent
And they said today that a verdict may not be reached until Saturday morning!
The defence called their own "expert" who stated that lip-reading is not 100% accurate.
Originally Posted by Chelsea Pensioner
I'm going to complain to the police the next time anyone on this site calls me an "Aussie %#*^# "
Although its certainly true, I object on racist grounds, and want to go to court and waste some of your hard earned ! Or we could shake hands and have a beer or two.
nice to see you grasp the issue of racism
This was the only issue I was taking up with you - racism can't be got over with a beer or two.
You calling me a **** is offensive but anyone can be called it... you calling me a paki **** is way worse...only some-one of my colour can be called that. I do not believe that the 2 things are equal.
I was very careful not to call you arrogant or ignorant as I do not know you or anything about you... what I wrote was "telling me that I need to live in asia as a white anglo saxon before I can talk to you about not grasping racism shows how arrogant or ignorant you are being"...I meant that this (and only this) statement was arrogant or ignorant.
Sorry if I made you think that I was trying to belittle you...I try not to do that in serious debates as I think the purpose of these debates is try and persuade and learn from eachother.
I have no idea what was or wasn't said (I have made that point several times) on the pitch but if Terry used the word 'black' before any other word then he deserves to be punished...as he claims to be innocent then he has the right to a trial no matter how expensive...I guess justice can be expensive but at least it's better to spend the money on that than just giving it to bail out the banks or on another sodding war!
I'm going to complain to the police the next time anyone on this site calls me an "Aussie %#*^# "
Although its certainly true, I object on racist grounds, and want to go to court and waste some of your hard earned ! Or we could shake hands and have a beer or two.
nice to see you grasp the issue of racism
This was the only issue I was taking up with you - racism can't be got over with a beer or two.
You calling me a **** is offensive but anyone can be called it... you calling me a paki **** is way worse...only some-one of my colour can be called that. I do not believe that the 2 things are equal.
I was very careful not to call you arrogant or ignorant as I do not know you or anything about you... what I wrote was "telling me that I need to live in asia as a white anglo saxon before I can talk to you about not grasping racism shows how arrogant or ignorant you are being"...I meant that this (and only this) statement was arrogant or ignorant.
Sorry if I made you think that I was trying to belittle you...I try not to do that in serious debates as I think the purpose of these debates is try and persuade and learn from eachother.
I have no idea what was or wasn't said (I have made that point several times) on the pitch but if Terry used the word 'black' before any other word then he deserves to be punished...as he claims to be innocent then he has the right to a trial no matter how expensive...I guess justice can be expensive but at least it's better to spend the money on that than just giving it to bail out the banks or on another sodding war!
I do believe that something is offensive only if you take offence. Like all of us I have had to suffer verbal abuse, some of which included racial abuse. I have yet to react badly. I control my thoughts no one else. I also object to people taking offence on my behalf. Sometimes this is my family and I do what I can to smooth the hackles. Of course I haven't always been like this, but it's been a long time since I was thirteen. For myself I don't think any better of someone who offers me verbal abuse and hasn't included a racial remark than someone who has. As for 'positive discrimination' it is still discrimination however well meant the intent is to redress past abuses.
Problem with lip reading is its subjective and puts schemas in your head in this case. To convict a person on subjective evidence would be laughable and surely appealed.
I can honestly say I've watched the video at least 10 times since the event and changed my mind at least 3/4 times as to what was said.
Whether people like Terry or not, whether they believe he is guilty or innocent I think it's wrong to convict someone and tarnish their career on what "might" have been said. Months after the event and after 3 days trial we have got no further to proving his guilt than we were 9 months ago so in that case he walks free IMO
I think without actually being in court, it's difficult to make any prediction on what the outcome might be. The whole nature of the case from the outset suggested that there was never going to be any definitive proof one way or another and, much like a jury in crown court case, I'd guess that the magistrate has to make some kind of judgement on whose version of events he believes. There's bound to be an element of subjectivity in it, but without actually seeing the body language and hearing the full answers, it's impossible for us to say whether JT or Anton Ferdinand came over as more trustworthy (for want of a better word).
Bear in mind, JT's legal team made an attempt to have the charges dismissed after the prosecution had finished putting its case and the magistrate refused it, as he felt there was a case to answer. I still feel it could go either way to be honest.
Bear in mind, JT's legal team made an attempt to have the charges dismissed after the prosecution had finished putting its case and the magistrate refused it, as he felt there was a case to answer. I still feel it could go either way to be honest.
john terry will be found guilty, he is in the dock for one reason and one reason only, to be made an example of. who better than a famous footballer.
Couldn't agree more, but that doesn' make it right. Anti semitism was the forerunner of all forms of racism, goes back more than 2500 years in history, and is impossible not to be regarded as racist. If ever there was a race it's the Jews. They cross all national boundaries, come in all shapes and sizes and colours, and are united by far more than religious beliefs.
I'm sure the French will be surprised to find they are not a race. In the world of UK Law, is race totally dependent on skin colour??? Are the Chinese a race ,offered the same protection against slurs as blacks , who apparently are a race. And how about the Scandanavians?? What are they if not a race ??
Which of the following are not races, American Indians, Inuits' , Aboriginals, Muslims, *****lians, Polynesians ?? Or do we differentiate between races and religions in Law, but still apply racist charges for Religious slurs, but only for some religions . Why is a slur against Muslims deemed racist, but not so against Catholics, Protestants, Scientologists or atheists???? Catholics , like Muslims, could come from any of 40 or 50 countries, and be multi coloured.Please explain the difference.
Was Hitler a racist??
There's only one race, the Human race.
All the rest is political correctness, pure and simple, and whoever complains the longest and loudest is heard by the Politicians, the votes are evaluated,and Laws are enacted. That is what Political Correctness is , and that's literally how it works.
racism is now all about skin colour, political correctiveness has taken over, soon you will be to scared to use the word black.
Chelsea Pensioner you talk sense on this subject.
Chelsea Pensioner you talk sense on this subject.
Was reading The Standard on the way home an had to lol!!!
In a hilarious misunderstanding, Terry was asked to repeat evidence that he had been sent off four times in his career.
âCan you say, please, four times?â asked his QC, George Carter-Stephenson.
âPlease, please, please, please,â Terry responded.
Guffaws of laughter broke out around the courtroom at the misunderstanding, which was a result of the judge asking Terry to speak up.
The footballer appeared confused by response from the courtroom."
In a hilarious misunderstanding, Terry was asked to repeat evidence that he had been sent off four times in his career.
âCan you say, please, four times?â asked his QC, George Carter-Stephenson.
âPlease, please, please, please,â Terry responded.
Guffaws of laughter broke out around the courtroom at the misunderstanding, which was a result of the judge asking Terry to speak up.
The footballer appeared confused by response from the courtroom."
well im confusedWas reading The Standard on the way home an had to lol!!!
In a hilarious misunderstanding, Terry was asked to repeat evidence that he had been sent off four times in his career.
“Can you say, please, four times?” asked his QC, George Carter-Stephenson.
“Please, please, please, please,” Terry responded.
Guffaws of laughter broke out around the courtroom at the misunderstanding, which was a result of the judge asking Terry to speak up.
The footballer appeared confused by response from the courtroom."
There is a slight difference, yes. I believe the overriding point though is both the context and the intent of what was said.
I suppose we all to different degrees suffer abuse of some kind in our lives and this case has put it all in the public arena! The only good thing about this is that hopefully some of those that still abuse might see the errors of their ways once this trial is over! I still think bringing this to court is barmy though!
racism is now all about skin colour, political correctiveness has taken over, soon you will be to scared to use the word black.
Chelsea Pensioner you talk sense on this subject.
I agree it is PC but you can't just go around calling people a white **** or a black **** etc. in Britain we pride ourselves in being tolerant to people of all ethnic backgrounds and cultures. If we allow this to happen we will have already gone back 50 years. There was an excellent post on the QPR board whereby one poster rightly said at the end of the day we are all originally from Africa and the only variation in skin colour comes from environmental differences. We are all human, why bring someone's skin colour into it.
I would be horrified if I had a child and came home to find out he had been called a "black ****" by another child. It's just abhorrent. So yes technically it is more politically correct than racist but that's just the world we live in, you can't go around calling people that. I'm not saying JT did or didn't just talking about the issue.
To suggest CP is the only one talking sense about it is quite dismissive of the contribution other posters have made. I don't think there really is a right or wrong about it just a matter of opinion. I value yours, CP's and everyone else's just as equally