JT's day in the dock!

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District Line said:
Did you actually read anything he said before jumping to conclusions?

It's nothing to do with Chelsea he is talking about the root issue which to be fair he does have a point. How is racism any worse than Homophobia?

Where I disagree with him is that there isn't a massive difference along racial or personal. To my mind there is a huge difference when you abuse someone based on ethnicity, race, gender, disability or sexual oreintation
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Perhaps, but then any personal attack will implicate a wider group because the person is being associated with it in a negative way. In that way the abuse is both personal and racial/homophobic/ against the disabled.

I think the two are intertwined in any abuse- even just at the level of calling someone an idiot.
 
blueboy83 said:
Ok, I think we should clarify the difference between using racial abuse and being a racist.

If Terry called Ferdinand a c*** BECAUSE he's black, that would undeniably be racist.
But if it's the case that Ferdinand is a c*** who is black that doesn't necessarily mean you are a racist, in the same way calling someone a fat c*** doesn't mean you have a prejudice against fat people.
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Mate, that's just embarrassing.

You don't call someone a fat **** or a black **** unless being fat or black is part of the insult. Would you call someone a tall ****, or a right handed ****, or a blue eyed ****?

As a Chelsea fan, I find some of the arguments being used to defend JT in this thread unbelievable. How about we just wait and see what happens in court? If he's found not guilty, then case closed and all well and good. If guilty, then we have to ask some serious questions about whether he should remain as our captain or even play for our club ever again.
 
Yid Vicious said:
I'd agree with you on homophobia but I can't understand why you don't see the line crossed between abuse and racial abuse in what is alleged against Terry.


As for the FA's inaction that someone else brought up, any investigation they had into the incident would have to be delayed until afterwards because the result would risk bias to the trial despite not being held to the same level of scrutiny required for a criminal proceeding.
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I can see how it crossed the line, if it was said in that context. I just think that if you're going out to attack someone you shouldn't be surprised if they say something back. It strikes me as odd that a racist comment is, I think, the only thing that would land a player in the courts; which is inconsistent as the players are out there verbally abusing each other on a frequent basis.
 
A comment of a sexual nature, directed at a player's sexuality and possibly anything aimed at their faith could also do it, Silkship.
Abusing a female official about their sex would probably do it, too.
 
Just as well wait and see what happens. Can't see a conviction personally. Nothing is clear to anyone.
 
cfc ollie said:
Mate, that's just embarrassing.

You don't call someone a fat **** or a black **** unless being fat or black is part of the insult. Would you call someone a tall ****, or a right handed ****, or a blue eyed ****?

As a Chelsea fan, I find some of the arguments being used to defend JT in this thread unbelievable. How about we just wait and see what happens in court? If he's found not guilty, then case closed and all well and good. If guilty, then we have to ask some serious questions about whether he should remain as our captain or even play for our club ever again.
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Read again and then try to understand.

I never said it would be ok to use these terms but that if he has, that doesn't automatically mean Terry is racist.
If you called someone a fat c*** you more than likely don't really care that that person is fat or not, in the same way Terry may have made a heat of the moment comment but probably doesn't really care that Ferdinand is black or not.

This is the same point that the likes of Paul Ince and John Barnes have been making in the last few months too.
 
the whole thing is a joke, if it was said to ferdinands face fair enough but he did not hear it. soon you will get accused of thinking racist insults.
 
blueboy83 said:
Read again and then try to understand.

I never said it would be ok to use these terms but that if he has, that doesn't automatically mean Terry is racist.
If you called someone a fat c*** you more than likely don't really care that that person is fat or not, in the same way Terry may have made a heat of the moment comment but probably doesn't really care that Ferdinand is black or not.

This is the same point that the likes of Paul Ince and John Barnes have been making in the last few months too.
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I did read what you said and I don't agree with a word of it.

If you don't care that a person is fat, then you call them a ****, plain and simple - not a fat ****. The fact that you chose to mention they're fat means that you see something wrong in it - you're picking on a feature that makes them "different" to others. It's exactly the same when you use black to preface an insult as well. If you didn't feel it added weight to the insult, then why mention it at all?
 
Lets face it, he will get off and will continue to play for england and chelsea
 
Redbrynner said:
I think be looking at the Suarez/Evra fiasco......You can throw context of words out of the window.....If he has said it I think he will get the book thrown at him....there has to be consistancy.....And there would be more of an uproar if he got off scott free than if he got the book thrown at him.....
I think He will get fined.
The Fa will give him the same ban as Suarez (8 games)
But Chelsea wont sack him....

This isnt my opinion of what should happen, just what I think will happen.....Personally i think its wrong that you can offend someones family on a pitch and get away with it, but its not the same with colour.....Id be alot more offended if someone made comments about my mother than if they made comments about my skin colour.

As far as im concerned.....'Dont want no ****? Dont give no ****!'
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I'm with this bloke 100%.
 
cfc ollie said:
I did read what you said and I don't agree with a word of it.

If you don't care that a person is fat, then you call them a ****, plain and simple - not a fat ****. The fact that you chose to mention they're fat means that you see something wrong in it - you're picking on a feature that makes them "different" to others. It's exactly the same when you use black to preface an insult as well. If you didn't feel it added weight to the insult, then why mention it at all?
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Ok look, your average national front member uses racial insults because they have a genuine hatred for all non-white people. They'd use them regardless of context.
In Terry's case, during a heated exchange, he's used 'black' (assuming he's guilty) as a prefix to an insult but his target is Ferdinand and him alone. He would have used it to add weight to his insult but he hasn't necessarily given it more thought then other prefixes. It doesn't mean he has any genuine dislike for black people, he just wanted to hurt Ferdinand.

I'm not saying this is ok or acceptable but to point out that even if he is guilty, it doesn't mean Terry is the next Nick Griffin.
 
blueboy83 said:
Ok look, your average national front member uses racial insults because they have a genuine hatred for all non-white people. They'd use them regardless of context.
In Terry's case, during a heated exchange, he's used 'black' (assuming he's guilty) as a prefix to an insult but his target is Ferdinand and him alone. He would have used it to add weight to his insult but he hasn't necessarily given it more thought then other prefixes. It doesn't mean he has any genuine dislike for black people, he just wanted to hurt Ferdinand.

I'm not saying this is ok or acceptable but to point out that even if he is guilty, it doesn't mean Terry is the next Nick Griffin.
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<ok> agree
 
Comas/99 said:
I think everyone is overreacting because it is a footballer AGAIN

Wayne rooney swore at a camera a while back it was like he had raped 5 lads
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so this is your feeble attempt at defending Rooney who was an idiot for behaving that way..because even though people dont think he is much of a role model..kids still look up to him..not get raped by him...unless that is the only thing that makes you sit up and listen..poor do.

i dont think anyone is 'overeacting' the point is because there are hundreds of cameras at any big match means you leave yourself open to getting 'caught'..if any average joe on the street says it..then the exposure is limited due to it not being 'on camera'..does not mean some of us see it as a lighter matter depending on who it is.

i bet most of the people backing him are not of an ethnic minority..so do not understand how it actually makes one feel to be called a 'black' whatever...calling it an exagaration etc is a load of racist bollocks in itself...if it is true that he made such a remark.
 
blueboy83 said:
Ok look, your average national front member uses racial insults because they have a genuine hatred for all non-white people. They'd use them regardless of context.
In Terry's case, during a heated exchange, he's used 'black' (assuming he's guilty) as a prefix to an insult but his target is Ferdinand and him alone. He would have used it to add weight to his insult but he hasn't necessarily given it more thought then other prefixes. It doesn't mean he has any genuine dislike for black people, he just wanted to hurt Ferdinand.

I'm not saying this is ok or acceptable but to point out that even if he is guilty, it doesn't mean Terry is the next Nick Griffin.
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pathetic view point..extremely feeble attempt to justify someone calling someone else a 'black' whatever...without saying race does not play a role in that man's thinking..and just because you compare him to an absolute publicised bigot and scumbag does not make Terry's alleged actions any lighter to take for the 'black' individual concerned.

2 ****s dont make a righteous man <ok>
 
Spurlock said:
pathetic view point..extremely feeble attempt to justify someone calling someone else a 'black' whatever...without saying race does not play a role in that man's thinking..and just because you compare him to an absolute publicised bigot and scumbag does not make Terry's alleged actions any lighter to take for the 'black' individual concerned.

2 ****s dont make a righteous man <ok>
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Did you even read what I said or did you just start typing?
I never said it was ok.
I said in my comment, that 'black' would have been used to add maximum impact but it doesn't automatically mean he holds racist views.
I was highlighting that there is a difference between having preconceived notions of race and making a comment in the heat of the moment.
 
blueboy83 said:
Did you even read what I said or did you just start typing?
I never said it was ok.
I said in my comment, that 'black' would have been used to add maximum impact but it doesn't automatically mean he holds racist views.
I was highlighting that there is a difference between having preconceived notions of race and making a comment in the heat of the moment.
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i did read it..but maybe you dont understand the angle of my response......when one makes a heat of the moment comment as we all have done in our lives then usually it is made up of insults in order to hurt the other person..and usually it is insults and predjudices that come out that have been reserved in the past..be human in all this and not a chelsea fan and you will see what i mean....how can you ever prove wether Terry has a preconceived opinion or wether it was his annoyance that made him sound racist? if it is true that he said such things of course.


i think this is one of them things that we could argue/debate about till we both drop dead..so ill call it quits here...as i dont want it to escalate into a mini not606 civil war...and i dont think you or any other individual here is racist.i hope...but it is good to play devil's advocate in such matters in order to bring out the way the masses think on a very important subject...for me at least <ok>
 
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