As of yet your comment "Because he said it" is only alleged and no more! In fact you are being sub judicious in making these comments whilst the trial is taking place and could find yourself in very hot water.
JT's day in the dock!
- Thread starter bluemoon2
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As of yet your comment "Because he said it" is only alleged and no more! In fact you are being sub judicious in making these comments whilst the trial is taking place and could find yourself in very hot water.
I've not said racist abuse is against the law. I've said it's a bit rich to take offence at what another person says to you when your original intention was to upset them.
Personally I don't see a massive difference between abusing someone along racial or personal lines- ultimately the intention, which is to hurt the other person and demean them, is still there.
Racism is held up as the very worst because, until recently (arguably still is), it was prevalent in almost every society and a number of terrible acts have been commited in the name of it.
But what about homophobia? Is that any worse than racism? Would a player be in court if he had called the other a f*gg*t?
No, because John Terry himself accepts and admits that he said it. I'm glad YOU'RE not a lawyer!
Really, Robby, do try and keep up...
Ferdinand is only the witness though, the complaint didn't come from him it came from a member of the public so he didn't have to hear it, just makes his evidence futile
Ferdinand is black, by way of his skin colour, and was acting like a c to Terry by winding him up about his affair. That is true. Name one bit of that sentence that is incorrect? However, put all that into a phrase and you have a racial remark, which is against the law and hence where we find ourselves today. If I started shouting at someone in the street about them shagging someone else, complete with swear words, I'd get arrested, or a slap in the face! Yet on the football field it's okay?
Anyway, i take it this mysterious member of the public who made the complaint will testify? Otherwise you;re in the ridiculous situation of the person making the complaint not testifying, and the person the remark was aimed at admitting he didn't hear it!
your argument is nothing but hot air...the first bit is your 'personal' take on it..which is backing Terry....you chelsea fan you should take the tints off and behave like a human being first and a biased chelsea lover second
and this is not about homophobia so i dont see why you mention it..its a typical argument for someone who does not have an argument...why dont you go and ask a lawyer if someone would be in court for calling someone a ***got..just because someone might not end up in court over a homophobic comment does not make it ok to be racist..wow what a pathetic angle...and your 3rd paragraph is a very weak attempt at justifying racism..otherwise i dont see the point in you mentioning it..your 2 wrongs make a right philosophy is nothing but what is expected of someone so blinded by stupid loyalty to a man who could not give 2 ****s about you...but plays for the team you support and due to that you are willing to look like a fool due to your moral stance....have a word with yourself...playground tactics of winning an argument/debate wont work with some....
Yes, they COULD ban him on sporting grounds as that would be separate from any punishment the law courts MAY hand out IF he were found guilty.
You can throw yourself two-footed into someone and break their leg if you like. Do it in the street and it's arrestable, do it on a football pitch and whilst it's a red card, there's little chance it'll go to court.
Racist abuse, bringign someone's colour into a derogatory slur, is a criminal offence no matter where it happens.
Please don't try and muddy the waters here by saying 'what about this' or 'what about that'. The court case is about what John Terry said to Anton Ferdinand, which was reported by a fan and which was then investigated by the CPS prior to bringing a court action.
That's what we should be discussing, not trying to say that it's actually OK to racially abuse someone if they called you a name first.
I take it they have to wait untill he is found guily or not then and if guilty he's bound to appeal which could drag this on for ages. He'll be ready to retire by the time the FA can do anything.
your argument is nothing but hot air...the first bit is your 'personal' take on it..which is backing Terry....you chelsea fan you should take the tints off and behave like a human being first and a biased chelsea lover second
and this is not about homophobia so i dont see why you mention it..its a typical argument for someone who does not have an argument...why dont you go and ask a lawyer if someone would be in court for calling someone a ***got..just because someone might not end up in court over a homophobic comment does not make it ok to be racist..wow what a pathetic angle...and your 3rd paragraph is a very weak attempt at justifying racism..otherwise i dont see the point in you mentioning it..your 2 wrongs make a right philosophy is nothing but what is expected of someone so blinded by stupid loyalty to a man who could not give 2 ****s about you...but plays for the team you support and due to that you are willing to look like a fool due to your moral stance....have a word with yourself...playground tactics of winning an argument/debate wont work with some....
Did you actually read anything he said before jumping to conclusions?
It's nothing to do with Chelsea he is talking about the root issue which to be fair he does have a point. How is racism any worse than Homophobia?
Where I disagree with him is that there isn't a massive difference along racial or personal. To my mind there is a huge difference when you abuse someone based on ethnicity, race, gender, disability or sexual oreintation
You hit the nail right on the head. An offence is an offence, whether it happens on the football pitch or not.
Racism should not be singled out as the only thing that can go to court which originated on the football pitch. The court case is <singular> about JT and AF, but that does not mean it could/should have a wider impact on what happens on a football pitch and then the ramifications of that afterwards.
I am certainly not saying it is okay to racially abuse someone if you were being taunted first. Read my post again.
stupid debate..nothing to do with what is wrong and right..it is about chelsea fans backing Terry and everyone else trying to tell them that making a racist remark says something about you being a racist....sad when your football club becomes your bible...bye bye.
yes i did read it ..so dont patronise me thanks...ive been on planet earth long enough to reach a few of my own conclusions..and when it comes to morals and beliefs my club does not influence me..yes i read it and i quoted it too and i stand by what i said..it is a feeble attempt to justify things..however im done with this as i know where it will lead...agree with you and kiss Terry's arse or get vilified.
I'd agree with you on homophobia but I can't understand why you don't see the line crossed between abuse and racial abuse in what is alleged against Terry.
As for the FA's inaction that someone else brought up, any investigation they had into the incident would have to be delayed until afterwards because the result would risk bias to the trial despite not being held to the same level of scrutiny required for a criminal proceeding.
Football in the UK has been multi racial and multi ethnic for many tears now, with Chelsea having a significantly large %age of both! JT has rubbed shoulders with these groups for 12 years and friendly with most of them, and for this reason alone I find implausible that he would have in him to use the remarks as he has been charged with!
I think be looking at the Suarez/Evra fiasco......You can throw context of words out of the window.....If he has said it I think he will get the book thrown at him....there has to be consistancy.....And there would be more of an uproar if he got off scott free than if he got the book thrown at him.....
I think He will get fined.
The Fa will give him the same ban as Suarez (8 games)
But Chelsea wont sack him....
This isnt my opinion of what should happen, just what I think will happen.....Personally i think its wrong that you can offend someones family on a pitch and get away with it, but its not the same with colour.....Id be alot more offended if someone made comments about my mother than if they made comments about my skin colour.
As far as im concerned.....'Dont want no ****? Dont give no ****!'
I think He will get fined.
The Fa will give him the same ban as Suarez (8 games)
But Chelsea wont sack him....
This isnt my opinion of what should happen, just what I think will happen.....Personally i think its wrong that you can offend someones family on a pitch and get away with it, but its not the same with colour.....Id be alot more offended if someone made comments about my mother than if they made comments about my skin colour.
As far as im concerned.....'Dont want no ****? Dont give no ****!'
If ferdinand made a comment based on Terry being white then I can see why people are saying it's like for like.
Racism is foul and objectionable and is way worse than regular name calling.
I have no idea whether Terry is guilty or not...if he is found not guilty then he'll face no punishment. If he is found guilty he will face punishment from the FA...probably the same as Suarez.
What confuses me is how a member of the public complaining about hearing or seeing Terry allegedly making a racist comment leads to criticism of Ferdinand.
As for Racism v Homophobia....they are both equally foul and need to be stamped out.
That London nail bomber from the late 1990's bombed brick lane (to get Asians), Brixton (to get Afro Caribbean people) and a soho pub (to get gay and lesbians)...all equally wrong.
Racism is foul and objectionable and is way worse than regular name calling.
I have no idea whether Terry is guilty or not...if he is found not guilty then he'll face no punishment. If he is found guilty he will face punishment from the FA...probably the same as Suarez.
What confuses me is how a member of the public complaining about hearing or seeing Terry allegedly making a racist comment leads to criticism of Ferdinand.
As for Racism v Homophobia....they are both equally foul and need to be stamped out.
That London nail bomber from the late 1990's bombed brick lane (to get Asians), Brixton (to get Afro Caribbean people) and a soho pub (to get gay and lesbians)...all equally wrong.
Ok, I think we should clarify the difference between using racial abuse and being a racist.
If Terry called Ferdinand a c*** BECAUSE he's black, that would undeniably be racist.
But if it's the case that Ferdinand is a c*** who is black that doesn't necessarily mean you are a racist, in the same way calling someone a fat c*** doesn't mean you have a prejudice against fat people.
If Terry called Ferdinand a c*** BECAUSE he's black, that would undeniably be racist.
But if it's the case that Ferdinand is a c*** who is black that doesn't necessarily mean you are a racist, in the same way calling someone a fat c*** doesn't mean you have a prejudice against fat people.
your argument is nothing but hot air...the first bit is your 'personal' take on it..which is backing Terry....you chelsea fan you should take the tints off and behave like a human being first and a biased chelsea lover second
and this is not about homophobia so i dont see why you mention it..its a typical argument for someone who does not have an argument...why dont you go and ask a lawyer if someone would be in court for calling someone a ***got..just because someone might not end up in court over a homophobic comment does not make it ok to be racist..wow what a pathetic angle...and your 3rd paragraph is a very weak attempt at justifying racism..otherwise i dont see the point in you mentioning it..your 2 wrongs make a right philosophy is nothing but what is expected of someone so blinded by stupid loyalty to a man who could not give 2 ****s about you...but plays for the team you support and due to that you are willing to look like a fool due to your moral stance....have a word with yourself...playground tactics of winning an argument/debate wont work with some....
Firstly, I am a Fulham fan and I've said on a number of occasions what a scumbag I think John Terry is. I do also think, though, that his parents and the hangers on, who have let him do as he please so long as he plays well, are in some way responsible for his character.
I'm not trying to justify racism in away, I'm saying that there are other ways to hurt a person on the pitch which aren't dealt with in courts. Whilst I think everything should be done to eradicate it from football, I don't think they should champion one discriminatory issue above others. This seems a lot like a show trial.