Off Topic Jeremy Corbyn

[BBFs Unpopular View]

There's loads of lovely things I think we should all be able to have. It's how realistically those things can be delivered and how that is put into place.

Corbyn worries me because his economic policy doesn't seem thought out. Quantative easing for social projects for example just makes me think back to the last labour government trying to spend money it didn't have through PFI. Finding new ways to spend money we don't have isn't the answer. It's a short term way of thinking.

If workable left wing ideas were being put forward he'd be a more credible candidate I think, but it's all ideological rather than realistic. Or at least that's my perception of his ideas that I've seen.

I agree on the Quantitive easing with you mate but don't you realise that Quantitive easing is already being rolled out, the financial institutions are getting the QE, getting it at full value and once they use it in transactions then it devalues the currency. meaning the financial institutions get full value and you get devalue.

Putting money into ground level projects is feeding the roots, the question is how much and how you use it. The policy can be good or bad depending on how it is implemented. If the QE is used to create higher education and skills as well as regenration then the effects can be quite good, the QE we are seeing now is theft. There is so much debt that there is not enough cash going round to keep the economy going.

QE has been done by Japan for two decades now in the form the UK EU and US are doing, and it has failed, 20 years. Look at what an icecream costs in Japan Or a water melon That is the problem with financial institution QE. It creates inflation. Japan is the proof of this.

Maybe reverse QE might work? In the end this QE will actually go into the eonomy, unlike the financial institutions that are using it to trade and speculate on things like food and currency which just drives prices up more

 

[afcftw]

I agree on the Quantitive easing with you mate but don't you realise that Quantitive easing is already being rolled out, the financial institutions are getting the QE, getting it at full value and once they use it in transactions then it devalues the currency. meaning the financial institutions get full value and you get devalue.

Putting money into ground level projects is feeding the roots, the question is how much and how you use it. The policy can be good or bad depending on how it is implemented. If the QE is used to create higher education and skills as well as regenration then the effects can be quite good, the QE we are seeing now is theft. There is so much debt that there is not enough cash going round to keep the economy going.

QE has been done by Japan for two decades now in the form the UK EU and US are doing, and it has failed, 20 years. Look at what an icecream costs in Japan Or a water melon That is the problem with financial institution QE. It creates inflation. Japan is the proof of this.

I think the QE we are already/have already doing/done isn't working as intended and if we decide to massively increase QE to start pumping it into social projects the markets will lose faith and the currency will plummet, with costs increasing. Its a high risk way of trying to fill funding gaps. And the problem for Corbyn is that the media will pick this kind of thing apart and people will be too afraid to vote for him as it'll be framed as a return to over-spending Labour taking risks with our futures for the sake of immediate gratification.

 

[Tobes]

One thing I would say, making education free is more important now than ever with such unemployment\underemployment.
It's ****ing criminal that it isn't. INstead the tories are starting up bootcamps for people who want benefits. Send them to ****ing Uni instead of "bootcamps" where you work for free or practise interviews for jobs that are not out there

Making University 'free' isn't the way to go, because you end up with people who are studying for studyings sake and aren't necessarily going to bring an added benefit to the wider society as a result of their degree.

Whilst I think the current fees are too high, the basic principle of people investing in their own future and the different mindset that it brings with it, is a positive imo.

 

[Tobes]

I agree on the Quantitive easing with you mate but don't you realise that Quantitive easing is already being rolled out, the financial institutions are getting the QE, getting it at full value and once they use it in transactions then it devalues the currency. meaning the financial institutions get full value and you get devalue.

Putting money into ground level projects is feeding the roots, the question is how much and how you use it. The policy can be good or bad depending on how it is implemented. If the QE is used to create higher education and skills as well as regenration then the effects can be quite good, the QE we are seeing now is theft. There is so much debt that there is not enough cash going round to keep the economy going.

QE has been done by Japan for two decades now in the form the UK EU and US are doing, and it has failed, 20 years. Look at what an icecream costs in Japan Or a water melon That is the problem with financial institution QE. It creates inflation. Japan is the proof of this.

Maybe reverse QE might work? In the end this QE will actually go into the eonomy, unlike the financial institutions that are using it to trade and speculate on things like food and currency which just drives prices up more

There's been no QE in the UK since 2012 and we have low inflation, hence the reason that we've still got record low interest rates.

So what are you waffling on about?

 

[Treble]

It is. Labour in the 70's was lead by the Unions and the Unions in turn wielded way to much power, and it ended up with the crescendo of the Winter of discontent.

Labour of the 70's conjures images of strikes, inefficiencies, and inflation driven by unsustainable wage increases.

It's not about 'not risking it' it's about understanding that those times were ****e and have no relevance in 2015.

You're confusing a social conscience with outdated socio economic policies. Labour does need to re-invent itself again, but it doesn't need to use the 70's as it's template ffs.

The unions are finished mate. I think you're believing the media too much. I doubt Corbyn wants that back. Labour ideology in the 70's was more than just about the unions, it was a culmination of everything the Labour party had built over post-war Britain. It was a genuine connection with the common man and woman.

It's like saying the boom bust cycle that led to the economic catastrophe of the late 80's and 90's or the overspending of the banks leading to the crisis in the last 10 years has somehow meant an end to capitalism. Ofcourse it hasnt. Likewise, just bcos Labour fcked up with the unions doesnt mean ppl like John Smith and now Corbyn havent learned from it and will change BUT still remain true to their core beliefs.

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

I think the QE we are already doing isn't working as intended and if we decide to massively increase QE to start pumping it into social projects the markets will lose faith and the currency will plummet, with costs increasing. Its a high risk way of trying to fill funding gaps. And the problem for Corbyn is that the media will pick this kind of thing apart and people will be too afraid to vote for him as it'll be framed as a return to over-spending Labour taking risks with our futures for the sake of immediate gratification.

Labour and Tory have both created the problem, the Tories started it off under Thatcher. Labour had to deal with that legacy and they get all the blame. Yes Neoliberal labour under Blair Brown were ****, they are Tory lite after all.

The problem with QE is that the central bank creates money out of nothing, then buys government bonds and the like. These bonds are them paid back by your great great great great great grand kids... at this point that's where you're at. It is getting deeper and deeper by kicking the can down the road.


In the year 2000 UK debt was 40% of GDP, 2008 it was 51% of GDP now UK debt is 90%+ of GDP. Tell me about how bad Labour is and how good the Tories are again

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

****! I didn't want to get into this whole thing Me and my big mouth.

I was honestly looking to see what people thought of Corbyn. We all know my stance on all of this well by now

Sometimes I can't help myself.

 

[afcftw]

Labour and Tory have both created the problem, the Tories started it off under Thatcher. Labour had to deal with that legacy and they get all the blame. Yes Neoliberal labour under Blair Brown were ****, they are Tory lite after all.

The problem with QE is that the central bank creates money out of nothing, then buys government bonds and the like. These bonds are them paid back by your great great great great great grand kids... at this point that's where you're at. It is getting deeper and deeper by kicking the can down the road.


In the year 2000 UK debt was 40% of GDP, now UK debt is 90%+ of GDP. Tell me about how bad Labour is and how good the Tories are again

They are both just a bunch of elite ****s taking it in turns to bend the country over. Corbyn appears to be of a different mould with a social conscience, unfortunately his ideas just don't seem realistic, or aren't things the general public will support.

 

[afcftw]

I could genuinely see Corbyn leading the Green Party to a handful of seats and having a real effect on politics, but as labour leader I just don't think he is going to have the impact his supporters are expecting.

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

They are both just a bunch of elite ****s taking it in turns to bend the country over. Corbyn appears to be of a different mould with a social conscience, unfortunately his ideas just don't seem realistic, or aren't things the general public will support.

I see your point, and the media are really trying to paint that picture.

But things are really bad these days and getting worse depending on where you are in the financial scale.

Policies are one thing, how they are implemented is another and Corbyn has yet to win and then has to hire the right people.

One of the best traits a leader can have is the ability to select the right people, in fact in this type of job it is probably the most inportant trait.

 

[Treble]

****! I didn't want to get into this whole thing Me and my big mouth.

I was honestly looking to see what people thought of Corbyn. We all know my stance on all of this well by now

Sometimes I can't help myself.

I would like Corbyn to get it tbh. For 2 reasons...

1) I'm not enamoured by the other candidates. None of the others seem like ppl of substance. None of the others look capable of leading. And I doubt Corbyn will do any worse than them at the next election.

2) I want to see the effect real choice will have on British politics in the long term AND how the modern generation react to a real choice between Left and Right and Centre politics. Imo it can only be a good thing. Otherwise we're sleepwalking into anither 100 yrs of the same fckers in charge, just with a different name above the door.

 

[terrifictraore]

One thing I would say, making education free is more important now than ever with such unemployment\underemployment.
It's ****ing criminal that it isn't. INstead the tories are starting up bootcamps for people who want benefits. Send them to ****ing Uni instead of "bootcamps" where you work for free or practise interviews for jobs that are not out there

So you want to send all the NEETs to university, you really think that is going to work?

 

[Tobes]

The unions are finished mate. I think you're believing the media too much. I doubt Corbyn wants that back. Labour ideology in the 70's was more than just about the unions, it was a culmination of everything the Labour party had built over post-war Britain. It was a genuine connection with the common man and woman.

It's like saying the boom bust cycle that led to the economic catastrophe of the late 80's and 90's or the overspending of the banks leading to the crisis in the last 10 years has somehow meant an end to capitalism. Ofcourse it hasnt. Likewise, just bcos Labour fcked up with the unions doesnt mean ppl like John Smith and now Corbyn havent learned from it and will change BUT still remain true to their core beliefs.

The connection couldn't have been that strong, as the 'common man' patently didn't understand why Labour sought to control inflation....

I think that's misty eyed nostalgia tbh mate, the 70's were largely ****e and the 'common man' hardly prospered.

The core beliefs of the Labour party should be the starting point for the strategy and policy formation moving forwards though. A just, caring and fair society should always be the cornerstone, it's just what that looks like in 2015 that's up for debate and the Labour party desperately needs to have that honest debate, before it can move forwards and regain it's place in the political spectrum.

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

I would like Corbyn to get it tbh. For 2 reasons...

1) I'm not enamoured by the other candidates. None of the others seem like ppl of substance. None of the others look capable of leading. And I doubt Corbyn will do any worse than them at the next election.

2) I want to see the effect real choice will have on British politics in the long term AND how the modern generation react to a real choice between Left and Right and Centre politics. Imo it can only be a good thing. Otherwise we're sleepwalking into anither 100 yrs of the same fckers in charge, just with a different name above the door.

I totally get this. it ain't working lets try something else, it can be hardto figure out what is the right thing to do, mainly thanks to the media misinformation and lets face it, agenda, something claimed of me There are those that will fearmonger that Corbyn will destroy the country yadda yadda, and those rumblings are coming from those who already hold the power.. go figure

Saving the banks was saving the power structure, of which the banks are atop. Corbyn is certainly not a banker man.. and so the media will slaughter him as will the right leaning neoliberal Labour element.

Thanks to the media we all have no real clear picture of the situation and therefor it is hard to make informed decisions and no one believes anyone else any more

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

This is what the media want people to think when they think of Corbyn

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[FedLadSonOfAnfield]

I like Corbyn. He gives straight answers to questions. The other leadership candidates all try to bend and deflect turning one issue into another in their avoidance tactics

However I'm not sure if Corbyn's image is just that... an image, something cooked up with PR people, or whether he is coming from a place of true genuinity

He is very idealistic and as always you have to question whether that translates to actual policy making. But his idealism and radicalism are very necessary forces in culture right now to balance out a government that has been tipping further and further towards the right for years with no real opposition

Does that mean he's the man to lead Labour... I don't know. It would be interesting and he comes across as the most authoritative candidate but he is a divisive figure as evidenced by Gordon Brown's comments about how Labour can't rely on being the 'reactionary' party to win an election

I think for him to work and win an election it's reliant on the general public as a whole wanting the wholesale change to our economic / political structure that Corbyn advocates. Will this happen, of course not, as usual the Brits will baulk and revert to the safety of the perceived Centrist middle ground. And that's why I tend to think Corbyn won't win the leadership race. British politics and winning elections is about appearing to occupy that centre, the veil of the middle of the road being used to hide that party's real politics, this is exactly what Corbyn isn't about

 

[Treble]

I like Corbyn. He gives straight answers to questions. The other leadership candidates all try to bend and deflect turning one issue into another in their avoidance tactics

However I'm not sure if Corbyn's image is just that... an image, something cooked up with PR people, or whether he is coming from a place of true genuinity

He is very idealistic and as always you have to question whether that translates to actual policy making. But his idealism and radicalism are very necessary forces in culture right now to balance out a government that has been tipping further and further towards the right for years with no real opposition

Does that mean he's the man to lead Labour... I don't know. It would be interesting and he comes across as the most authoritative candidate but he is a divisive figure as evidenced by Gordon Brown's comments about how Labour can't rely on being the 'reactionary' party to win an election

I think for him to work and win an election it's reliant on the general public as a whole wanting the wholesale change to our economic / political structure that Corbyn advocates. Will this happen, of course not, as usual the Brits will baulk and revert to the safety of the perceived Centrist middle ground. And that's why I tend to think Corbyn won't win the leadership race. British politics and winning elections is about appearing to occupy that centre, the veil of the middle of the road being used to hide that party's real politics, this is exactly what Corbyn isn't about

Sadly I agree with this but I DO want the public to at least have that choice. Your very last sentence is exactly what I hate about all the parties but particularly about "New Labour". This is what every labour leader since Tony Blair to Ed Milliband has been about and I cant stand it.

 

[afcftw]

Unfortunately with a first past the post system we will continue to be forced into these kind of situations, where free choice and real opinions can't get a platform and the same tired politics is recycled. Bring in proportional representation and let people have some real say in who leads the country.

 

[Treble]

Unfortunately with a first past the post system we will continue to be forced into these kind of situations, where free choice and real opinions can't get a platform and the same tired politics is recycled. Bring in proportional representation and let people have some real say in who leads the country.

Not sure after the Con-Lib alliance. Also wont PR just cause everything to stagnate and become beaurocratic time-wasting and unrepresentative behind the door deal-making? In effect become the very thing you hate... a copy of the EU

 

[afcftw]

Not sure after the Con-Lib alliance. Also wont PR just cause everything to stagnate and become beaurocratic time-wasting and unrepresentative behind the door deal-making? In effect become the very thing you hate... a copy of the EU

Did you prefer the con-lib alliance or the Tories in on there own?