January transfer thread

[young2077]

Of course I agree no player is irreplaceable, we easily replaced Kevin Phillips did we not?

Also why would we expect our owner to provide extra funds to keep a key player, that's just silly?

We replaced him as in we bought a striker but that's about it!

Had similar arguments with my Dad. He can’t understand why the owner can’t just “spend a few million and buy a load of experienced Championship players”. When I attempted to explain the model he just shook his head and repeated the question

Experienced championship players wouldn't provide us with the moments of magic these lads do, it's crazy how when they aren't winning these young lads needs replacing with championship plodders. Madness!

 

[Dorset]

Our stadium name already lends itself perfectly to sponsorship opportunities as well without taking away from its "proper" name.

No need to name it the "The Nissan Stadium" for example. It would just become "The Nissan Stadium of Light". Everyone would still immediately know exactly where and what it is.

I'm really surprised that Nissan are not involved with the club in a high profile way. IMO, they are wasting a great opportunity to be the clubs main sponsor for both the SOL and the shirts.

Perhaps they are waiting in the wings until we return to the PL?

 

[FellTop]

I read something yesterday that Grumpy posted about FFP, the wages etc and as usual it is dismissed by a fair few as unimportant, but it's actually very important and makes perfect sense.

Our turnover isn't amazing and a good guess at the wage bill (based on accounts etc) is that we are running at around 70/80% wages to turnover.

Spreading it out over the squad, it would put our upper limit at 20k per week down to the average of £7k per week.

To me that is very sensible financial planning, we don't get into situations like West Brom who have had to take out loans for running costs, we don't run the risk of breaking FFP and the small amount the owners can put in can be used for new signings or improvements.

FFP is interesting in our case. It is based on allowable losses over 3 years I think (i might be wrong like). I had assumed we were on the brink when Donald came in and that drove some of the decision making. I was hoping we would be on a pretty even keel now, in terms of accumulated lossed over the last 2 years, allowing us a bit of headroom this season, and a bit more next, and so on. I suspect our revenue has been over forecast in last couple of years too, what with the fan base turning out in massive numbers, loads of sky tv matches. I reckon we might have a bit of manouverability personally, not loads, but some. We are also sitting on some hefty assets that can turned into revenue. Stewart is only one. Patterson, Neil, Ba, Hume, Cirkin, Ballard, Clarke will all at some point move on and make the club major profits. If we assume 1 or 2 of those may go in the next season or two then again we have financial headroom coming our way.

 

[Chunksafc]

FFP is interesting in our case. It is based on allowable losses over 3 years I think (i might be wrong like). I had assumed we were on the brink when Donald came in and that drove some of the decision making. I was hoping we would be on a pretty even keel now, in terms of accumulated lossed over the last 2 years, allowing us a bit of headroom this season, and a bit more next, and so on. I suspect our revenue has been over forecast in last couple of years too, what with the fan base turning out in massive numbers, loads of sky tv matches. I reckon we might have a bit of manouverability personally, not loads, but some. We are also sitting on some hefty assets that can turned into revenue. Stewart is only one. Patterson, Neil, Ba, Hume, Cirkin, Ballard, Clarke will all at some point move on and make the club major profits. If we assume 1 or 2 of those may go in the next season or two then again we have financial headroom coming our way.

That's all valid, but the big one is turnover and as we are all aware, we have had a big overhead with minimal income, especially in league one.

We cannot afford to have our wages at close to or more than our income. Most of the championship have realised this now and are actively looking at reducing wages.

We are fine on the losses side of FFP (I think)

 

[cumbrianmackem]

Of course I agree no player is irreplaceable, we easily replaced Kevin Phillips did we not?

Also why would we expect our owner to provide extra funds to keep a key player, that's just silly?

Pitt
Isn't it just as silly to pay what possibly we can't afford and end up back to square one.
Doubtful there's a right or wrong answer to this problem, it's modern day football unfortunately and we as fans have just got to suck it up, then get behind whoever pulls on that shirt in the future.
I've already said I don't want Ross to go but we have to trust the management or just stop supporting the club which isn't an option to most.

 

[Chunksafc]

For anyone interested, he's a really simple description of FFP

https://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/en/inside-sports-law/blog/2022/08/new-financial-fair-play

Wages to be 70% of turnover by 2025/26

 

[FellTop]

That's all valid, but the big one is turnover and as we are all aware, we have had a big overhead with minimal income, especially in league one.

We cannot afford to have our wages at close to or more than our income. Most of the championship have realised this now and are actively looking at reducing wages.

We are fine on the losses side of FFP (I think)

Oh, absolutely agree mate. I am not suggesting we break rank now. I think we are probably in a pretty good long term position is all I am saying. I love how the club is run, long may it continue.

PS - I will still cry and whinge when the likes of Stewart, and even more so Neil, move on. But will get over it, the club will always be there and another player will come along I can get emotionally attached to.

 

[FellTop]

For anyone interested, he's a really simple description of FFP

https://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/en/inside-sports-law/blog/2022/08/new-financial-fair-play

Wages to be 70% of turnover by 2025/26

Thanks mate. I hadnt even realised the rules were being changed

Unless there is a staggered route to the 70%, i.e. must be at 80% by 24/25 then you can imagine some clubs going all out next year or two to get to the prem cant you? Wont this also just make the gap between prem and championship even bigger, with each passing year? Football is becoming even more of a closed shop isnt it? I can see why we dont want another Bury, but this will really dampen down the rags to riches side of football and erode the pyramid.

 

[Reggie the Cheddar]

I'm really surprised that Nissan are not involved with the club in a high profile way. IMO, they are wasting a great opportunity to be the clubs main sponsor for both the SOL and the shirts.

Perhaps they are waiting in the wings until we return to the PL?

Didn't they actively oppose us building the stadium on a site near them. Don't think they particularly care for us

 

[Mackem-Tiz]

Didn't they actively oppose us building the stadium on a site near them. Don't think they particularly care for us

Nissan said half their employees (or a significant amount) support the mags and didn't want to alienate them...or words to that affect.

 

[Oliver's Army]

For anyone interested, he's a really simple description of FFP

https://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/en/inside-sports-law/blog/2022/08/new-financial-fair-play

Wages to be 70% of turnover by 2025/26

Also, this just popped up on my twitter feed...

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[Chunksafc]

Thanks mate. I hadnt even realised the rules were being changed

Unless there is a staggered route to the 70%, i.e. must be at 80% by 24/25 then you can imagine some clubs going all out next year or two to get to the prem cant you? Wont this also just make the gap between prem and championship even bigger, with each passing year? Football is becoming even more of a closed shop isnt it? I can see why we dont want another Bury, but this will really dampen down the rags to riches side of football and erode the pyramid.

To me it looks more like the championship clubs are actively looking to reduce wages and not go all out (those with Parachute money aside)

With what's happened with Derby etc, I expect the penalties to get harsher for anyone breaching the rules.

Unfortunately, that does mean the gap will get bigger and bigger, but let's be honest unless your owners are a country or mental multi billionaires the gap is too big anyway

 

[Smug in Boots]

To me it looks more like the championship clubs are actively looking to reduce wages and not go all out (those with Parachute money aside)

With what's happened with Derby etc, I expect the penalties to get harsher for anyone breaching the rules.

Unfortunately, that does mean the gap will get bigger and bigger, but let's be honest unless your owners are a country or mental multi billionaires the gap is too big anyway

I've seen people saying we should 'invest' to get to the PL and 'push on' when we get there. It's absolute nonsense, as you say it's impossible to reach the top unless your club is bought and used as a vehicle by some pariah or state.

Chelsea were used by Abramovich and are now a top half team with Graham Potter managing and currently doing little better than Fulham. West Ham have spent big but it's peanuts and will lumber them with average players on massive wages.

Only massive investment can win anything ...

... I'm just happy for us to play football, entertain the supporters and have the odd days out at Wembley.

 

[Chunksafc]

I've seen people saying we should 'invest' to get to the PL and 'push on' when we get there. It's absolute nonsense, as you say it's impossible to reach the top unless your club is bought and used as a vehicle by some pariah or state.

Chelsea were used by Abramovich and are now a top half team with Graham Potter managing and currently doing little better than Fulham. West Ham have spent big but it's peanuts and will lumber them with average players on massive wages.

Only massive investment can win anything ...

... I'm just happy for us to play football, entertain the supporters and have the odd days out at Wembley.

Spot on mate.

Also worth considering that Parachute Payment rules have changed and it's only 2 years now, not 3.

If forest come down, they have 2 years to get back before they explode

 

[Bank of England 2]

Would like us to get a sponsor for the SoL to get a few quid in. It would have had big exposure this season so far via Sky.

I agree mate. I fully expected this to happen.
I am also really surprised with how poor the marketing of merchandise has become. My son-in-law wanted to get my grandson, who's 4 months, his 1st Sunderland strip, but couldn't get one. The state of the club shop is a concern.

 

[Confucius]

Nissan said half their employees (or a significant amount) support the mags and didn't want to alienate them...or words to that affect.

Well myself and 1000’s of other Sunderland supporters work in Newcastle, let’s **** St James Park off. It’s a stupid argument if correct.

 

[flandersmackem]

I agree mate. I fully expected this to happen.
I am also really surprised with how poor the marketing of merchandise has become. My son-in-law wanted to get my grandson, who's 4 months, his 1st Sunderland strip, but couldn't get one. The state of the club shop is a concern.

I came over for Xmas and went to the Blackburn game. Took my Grandson into the club shop, have to say its gone downhill since the last time I was in there. I'm pretty sure Sunderland fans will buy SAFC merchandise, but if the marketing department don't put stuff in the shop for sale, what can you do. It does need addressing.

 

[Oliver's Army]

I agree mate. I fully expected this to happen.
I am also really surprised with how poor the marketing of merchandise has become. My son-in-law wanted to get my grandson, who's 4 months, his 1st Sunderland strip, but couldn't get one. The state of the club shop is a concern.

I went down just after Christmas to the club shop, got myself a new hat but anyone wanting a home strip was knackered unless they wanted 3XL and over.

Was going to get the home socks for the bairn but only had size 8-11 feet in stock.

Whilst there is massive positives on the football side of things, the other side of the club still leaves a lot to be desired imo.

 

[Hudson92]

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[clockstander]

Thanks for that understanding James Copley.