James McClean

[Spook]

Not the invading army then?

It's estimated that the Soviet Union lost around 29 million people during WWII (12 million soldiers, 17 million civilians). The Wehrmacht were mostly responsible for the death of Red Army soldiers on the Eastern Front, and they probably killed some civilians during the invasion of the Soviet Union. The majority of the civilian deaths in the Soviet Union during WWII are attributed to Stalin because of famine and terror inflicted by the state. Stalin had a previous reputation of killing his own people, and the Holodomor was evidence of this.

The Russians lost a lot of people, and the men who fought in the Red Army on the Eastern Front were very, very brave. However, they were poorly trained and essentially marched to their death by the Communist government in Moscow. Stalin used the Red Army and his people as cannon fodder, and he didn't give the slightest **** about their lives.

He was far worse than Hitler.

 

[Gambol]

Unlike brave Ireland who remained 'neutral' whilst giving information to the Nazis.

The Oirish were Nazi collaborators.

Do you really think the krauts would have tolerated thick leprechauns with stupid accents?

Are you denying that the IRA collaborated with the Nazis?

Who gives a ****

there were Jewish collaborators

there were British collaborators

there were American collaborators

ohh, but look its the IRA (old IRA and not related to war of independence IRA or The Troubles IRA), it must be representative of everyone huh

The Irish are known cowards.

The only way they'll fight ye is when yer back is turned or if they can slip an explosive device in yer pocket before running away (they might politely buy ye a pint before running oot the pub)

Cowards.

 

[SUPERNORWICH 23]

The Irish are known cowards.

The only way they'll fight ye is when yer back is turned or if they can slip an explosive device in yer pocket before running away (they might politely buy ye a pint before running oot the pub)

Cowards.

No bins on the tube because of the bomber c**ts.

 

[RAVENBLACK]

Quick lesson in life, death, and the politic of forced life and death...

It's historically certain that the Reich, had they not shafted the Ruskies in their agreement with Stalin, would have won the war.

Britain would be occupied and after that it's certain there would have been another major war between the Reich and the Ruskies in which we would be fighting on behalf of the Reich.

That didn't happen because we got lucky. Several times. And at a huge cost of conscripted men's lives.

An example is The Battle of Britain, an air battle between our RAF and the Luftwaffe, and it was the fulcrum upon which everything trembled.

Had we lost that, we would have been invaded, and lost the war. (The Americans were not yet involved)

But, just when we were stretched to nothing, the Luftwaffe changed tactic and withdrew. The Battle of Britain was won. The Luftwaffe would no longer try to fight the RAF over British skies. Countless airmen lost their lives.

Next stroke of luck was the nips havin a go at the yanks by decimating their fleet at Pearl Harbour. Had that not occurred the yanks had no interest in helping us fight our war.

Now the politic of global war was happening and with the yanks our side only then could we eventually mount the Normandy landings of July 1944 paid by an horrific loss of life.

Honour these men.

They fought, almost all conscripted, from several nations, and died.

Imagine that, for a moment.

All the young men of that age had the dreams of their own lives forcibly removed and were sent to die. Thousands per day died.

Imagine that, for a moment. What if you had been born in that age? Conscripted, no choice, sent to war. Would you have lived or died? Would you have dreamed of having a wife? Children?

And you ****in ****s refuse them a ****in poppy? 20p out of yer pocket?

Honour these men. Real men that had no option but to fight and did. And won.

Honour these men.

I have to wonder, today, how many big talkers in the digital age would cope with conscription? Never mind what you want, your life and dreams mean nothing, here's a gun, yer going to war and you most likely won't be coming back. Tweet that, ya ****er.

Honour these men.

Honour more those that fell.

well said you blue nosed orange ****.

 

[Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction]

It's estimated that the Soviet Union lost around 29 million people during WWII (12 million soldiers, 17 million civilians). The Wehrmacht were mostly responsible for death of Red Army soldiers on the Eastern Front, and they probably killed some civilians during the invasion of the Soviet Union. The majority of the civilian deaths in the Soviet Union during WWII are attributed to Stalin because of famine and terror inflicted by the state. Stalin had a previous reputation of killing his own people, and the Holodomor was evidence of this.

Oh really?

In 1995 a paper published by the Russian Academy of Science M. V. Philimoshin put the civilian death toll in the regions occupied by Germany at 13.7 million. Philimoshin cited sources from Soviet era to support his figures, he used the terms "genocide" and "premeditated extermination" when referring to deaths of 7.4 million civilians in the occupied USSR caused by the direct, intentional actions of violence. Civilians killed in reprisals during the Soviet partisan war account for a major part of the huge toll.[64] The report of Philimoshin lists the deaths of civilian forced laborers in Germany totaling 2,164,313. G. I. Krivosheev in the report on military casualties gives a total of 1,283,000 POW dead. The total of these two figures is 3,447,613, which is in close agreement with estimates by western historians of over 3 million deaths of prisoners in German captivity. In the occupied regions Nazi Germany had a policy of forced confiscation of food that resulted in the famine deaths of an estimated 6% of the population, 4.1 million persons

In conclusion

Deaths caused by the result of direct, intentional actions of violence 7,420,379
Deaths of forced laborers in Germany 2,164,313
Deaths due to famine and disease in the occupied regions 4,100,000
Total 13,684,692

All as a direct consequence of Nazi actions. Stalin was a mega **** as the purges and pogroms of the post-war era proved, but by and large the Soviets can not be held accountable for the cataclysmic death toll they suffered in the war

 

[Gambol]

No objection to this, my objection is just how little regard is given to the Russian sacrifice e.g. endless time focused on D-Day with around 20k deaths (a number not to be sniffed at) vs Stalingrad (1.1m Russians killed) - yet they only get a ****e movie with that ****ebag Jude Law as the star

Bollocks. That was a good movie

Yep. I know what you mean. Ivan conscripted and sent to death more than the rest of the allies combined.

Honour those men too. Poppy?

 

[DevAdvocate]

Don't forget the Celtic Park floodlights being used to guide German Bombers towards the secret Nazi Sub pens in Dublin.

 

[Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction]

It's estimated that the Soviet Union lost around 29 million people during WWII (12 million soldiers, 17 million civilians). The Wehrmacht were mostly responsible for the death of Red Army soldiers on the Eastern Front, and they probably killed some civilians during the invasion of the Soviet Union. The majority of the civilian deaths in the Soviet Union during WWII are attributed to Stalin because of famine and terror inflicted by the state. Stalin had a previous reputation of killing his own people, and the Holodomor was evidence of this.

The Russians lost a lot of people, and the men who fought in the Red Army on the Eastern Front were very, very brave. However, they were poorly trained and essentially marched to their death by the Communist government in Moscow. Stalin used the Red Army and his people as cannon fodder, and he didn't give the slightest **** about their lives.

He was far worse than Hitler.

The German's invented a completely new method of warfare combining aerial power and fast moving artillery that destroyed all in its path. The conventional tactics were ripped up, it takes armies time to adjust and they were always going to suffer a higher rate of casualties as a result.

You seem to think I have some sort of soft spot for Stalin, my gripe is that we have all these ceremonies about the brave landing etc. Yet Russian celebrations of particular pivotal events in the war get laughed at or are derided as triumphalist ****e or being used for political point scoring. The Russian's have more right than anyone to celebrate in what was achieved through their sacrifice while, like I mentioned, the Allies waited on the sidelines until the outcome was already foregone conclusion

 

[Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction]

Bollocks. That was a good movie

Yep. I know what you mean. Ivan conscripted and sent to death more than the rest of the allies combined.

Honour those men too. Poppy?

Utter ****e - we have Hermann vs Ivan and both armies have the poshest accents known to man

 

[DevAdvocate]

Hitler was a monster so was uncle Joe, who was worse? Depends on your view, I personally don't think you could get a *** paper between them.

 

[Gambol]

No bins on the tube because of the bomber c**ts.

The ****s nearly got me with a bomb in a bin on the Old Brompton Road in Central London

Ok, it went off at the weekend when I was back home in Scotland, but I walked past it every week day at the time.

I still hold a grudge against the cowardly snivelling wee ****s.

They also bombed two other central London streets while I was in town

Cowards.

Is there anything more despicable than a coward? I think not.

Am no saying I'm any kind of big brave hard guy. I'm not. Am saying I despise cowards.

 

[RAVENBLACK]

Hitler was a monster so was uncle Joe, who was worse? Depends on your view, I personally don't think you could get a *** paper between them.

aren't you an ex proddy masonic filth bag?

 

[Jip Jaap Stam]

The German's invented a completely new method of warfare combining aerial power and fast moving artillery that destroyed all in its path. The conventional tactics were ripped up, it takes armies time to adjust and they were always going to suffer a higher rate of casualties as a result.

You seem to think I have some sort of soft spot for Stalin, my gripe is that we have all these ceremonies about the brave landing etc. Yet Russian celebrations of particular pivotal events in the war get laughed at or are derided as triumphalist ****e or being used for political point scoring. The Russian's have more right than anyone to celebrate in what was achieved through their sacrifice while, like I mentioned, the Allies waited on the sidelines until the outcome was already foregone conclusion

I have literally never seen anyone do this, anywhere. The only denigration of WW2 sacrifice that I see - on a regular basis - is yours towards Britain.

 

[Gambol]

Utter ****e - we have Hermann vs Ivan and both armies have the poshest accents known to man

I liked it

 

[Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction]

I have literally never seen anyone do this, anywhere. The only denigration of WW2 sacrifice that I see - on a regular basis - is yours towards Britain.

Not so long ago while Obama and Cameron were declaring on Normandy beaches that they were standing on the beachhead of victory in WW2, Putin and other Russian delegates attending (against their better judgement) were subsequently snubbed.
Now how many commemorations have these leaders attended in Russia? The country that made the D-Day landings possible.

Again, a matter of weeks ago Putin and delegates arrive in Serbia in the callous "provocative" act of remembering the lifting of the siege of Sarajevo

 

[Jip Jaap Stam]

Quick lesson in life, death, and the politic of forced life and death...

It's historically certain that the Reich, had they not shafted the Ruskies in their agreement with Stalin, would have won the war.

Britain would be occupied and after that it's certain there would have been another major war between the Reich and the Ruskies in which we would be fighting on behalf of the Reich.

That didn't happen because we got lucky. Several times. And at a huge cost of conscripted men's lives.

An example is The Battle of Britain, an air battle between our RAF and the Luftwaffe, and it was the fulcrum upon which everything trembled.

Had we lost that, we would have been invaded, and lost the war. (The Americans were not yet involved)

But, just when we were stretched to nothing, the Luftwaffe changed tactic and withdrew. The Battle of Britain was won. The Luftwaffe would no longer try to fight the RAF over British skies. Countless airmen lost their lives.

Next stroke of luck was the nips havin a go at the yanks by decimating their fleet at Pearl Harbour. Had that not occurred the yanks had no interest in helping us fight our war.

Now the politic of global war was happening and with the yanks our side only then could we eventually mount the Normandy landings of July 1944 paid by an horrific loss of life.

Honour these men.

They fought, almost all conscripted, from several nations, and died.

Imagine that, for a moment.

All the young men of that age had the dreams of their own lives forcibly removed and were sent to die. Thousands per day died.

Imagine that, for a moment. What if you had been born in that age? Conscripted, no choice, sent to war. Would you have lived or died? Would you have dreamed of having a wife? Children?

And you ****in ****s refuse them a ****in poppy? 20p out of yer pocket?

Honour these men. Real men that had no option but to fight and did. And won.

Honour these men.

I have to wonder, today, how many big talkers in the digital age would cope with conscription? Never mind what you want, your life and dreams mean nothing, here's a gun, yer going to war and you most likely won't be coming back. Tweet that, ya ****er.

Honour these men.

Honour more those that fell.

Well said Gambol

I saw an advert on the BBC for Children in Need last week, which urged women to "be a hero" and be bare-faced (make-up free) for charity.

The fact that they used the term "hero" in this ridiculous manner, just days before Remembrance, almost caused prompted me to write a strongly-worded letter to Points of View.

 

[pompeymeowth]

In total 20.7m people served in the Whermacht at one time or another (1m killed in Stalingrad alone). That is not a small number.

Russia was fighting on two fronts. Hermann one end, Japs the other.

The Russians didn't go to war with Japan until August 1945, three weeks later it was all over.

 

[Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction]

The Russians didn't go to war with Japan until August 1945, three weeks later it was all over.

Ok, there wasnt constant war but they had been fighting large battles on and off since around 1930

 

[Jip Jaap Stam]

Not so long ago while Obama and Cameron were declaring on Normandy beaches that they were standing on the beachhead of victory in WW2, Putin and other Russian delegates attending (against their better judgement) were subsequently snubbed.
Now how many commemorations have these leaders attended in Russia? The country that made the D-Day landings possible.

Again, a matter of weeks ago Putin and delegates arrive in Serbia in the callous "provocative" act of remembering the lifting of the siege of Sarajevo

I don't know. Have they actually been invited?

 

[SUPERNORWICH 23]

I would not be too partial for my own elected representatives to send me a letter telling me to go to France in a boat and run out into machine gun fire .
If the Germans invaded Britain I would happily take up arms and fight but f** going over to save a bunch if ungrateful frogs and the great grandfathers of the c**ts that invaded London and stole all the Casino jobs.
Not bitter at all.