Is Jenson Button Elite?
- Thread starter Kyle?
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Button had a long history of being in the wrong car at the wrong time, that coupled with a period of racing not being his highest priority really made people forget how good of a racer he actually is.
He waited it out with Honda/Brawn where otheres may have run away at the first opportunity and it paid off. He finally had the car he'd always needed and proved his ability. Nobody expected it, hence the attitude of claiming it was just the car, just the rule changes and the double diffuser.
Given the better cars early on in his career, he could have had more than one title, luck prevented that. Now he's at McLaren, on equal footing with his team mate and on his best form in my opinion. His qualifying may need some looking at, but he doesn't need to be front row to threaten. Who knows what next year may bring.
He waited it out with Honda/Brawn where otheres may have run away at the first opportunity and it paid off. He finally had the car he'd always needed and proved his ability. Nobody expected it, hence the attitude of claiming it was just the car, just the rule changes and the double diffuser.
Given the better cars early on in his career, he could have had more than one title, luck prevented that. Now he's at McLaren, on equal footing with his team mate and on his best form in my opinion. His qualifying may need some looking at, but he doesn't need to be front row to threaten. Who knows what next year may bring.
One other point... I'd say any driver who wins the world title is among the elite. But there are also the elite of the elite. Right now, only Schumacher is among those but any of the others could join him in the coming years.
Cowboys From Hell:1324491 said:
*through gritted teeth* Yeah... even Mr. Baggy-Overalls. *mumbles something unintelligible under breath*
You say his qualifying needs looking at but how close was he to Hamilton at Monza and in Q1 and 2 at spa? there only thousandths in it Whitmarsh classified Buttons drive at Canada as the best he's ever seen bar none, if that doesn't make him an elite driver then what does?????
I'd say yes to that.
To be 'elite' amongst F1 drivers, which is what I think this thread is all about, you have to show you are more than a one hit wonder.
How good was Button when the Brawn was not to his liking? Barichello then beat him in the second half of the season quite comfortably at times.
Any 'elite' driver does need to show that they didn;t just have a fotunate season once and that they can win at any given time.
Exception to the rule is Nelson Piquet! How he won 3xWDC's is anyones guess.
mephistopheles:1324681 said:
It's an area where he has room for improvement, not saying that it's bad by any means. And yes, his drive in Canada was immense, the drive of the season and by far his greatest.
Button has proved many of his doubters wrong since joining McLaren. Many believed that Hamilton would eat him alive and it simply hasn't happened.
Yes but it is not like Button won the WDC and then has not challenged since; he has competed for the WDC in the subsequent years and has won more races as well.
And also in the last half of 2009 I think Button beat Barrichello 5-4.
What's all this crap about the number of world titles making a driver elite? People only consider Hamilton elite because he has been big'd up that way since day one, yet he's done precious little to prove it even his title was won by default.
Sir Stirling Moss is head and shoulders above any of todays drivers in the so called "elite" class and he never even won a WDC.
Also I don't wish to be pedantic but "elite" is not an appropriate term to be used here, unless they have formed their own little group that nobody else is allowed to join.
Elite: - A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status.
Unless you mean that said drivers are simply richer than the rest.
Sir Stirling Moss is head and shoulders above any of todays drivers in the so called "elite" class and he never even won a WDC.
Also I don't wish to be pedantic but "elite" is not an appropriate term to be used here, unless they have formed their own little group that nobody else is allowed to join.
Elite: - A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status.
Unless you mean that said drivers are simply richer than the rest.
Not really because Massa his biggest rival was not disqualified or penalised.
He's not the fastest over one lap but as a Grand Prix driver - you'd be hard pressed to find a better performer. Only Vettel has performed better on race days than Jenson this year in my opinion. Drivers in my opinion should always largely be judged upon what they do on a Sunday and Jenson has time and again proved that he is an elite driver with his Sunday drives.
I already voted unsure but I still want to contribute to this debate I think it's really interesting. The elite idea I think is something about a driver capable of winning a title in an inferior car(ie. not the best car in the field). So Button does fulfil that capacity(Brawn<RBR in 2009 over the season).. but I think there's other necessary criteria.
1. Qualifying speed - An elite driver should be the number one driver in his team when it comes to qualifying. This is a hurdle Button falls at.
2. Overtaking ability must be present - Button passes quite well, but I do think he's a bit fortunate people don't turn into him more often.
3. Consistency - Obvious. Button manages it(except seasons where he's gone missing).
4. Wet weather driving is often a get elite quick method of getting up there with the best, it's perceived as an ultimate measure of skill. Button is good in changeable conditions(although I think a good bit of this is luck/skill when it comes to picking strategy), but not fantastic in absolute wet(Korea 2010 being a big example... no massive excursions, just fantastically slow).
5. You have to make your teammate look awful - Negotiable one to be honest, Lewis is making himself look a bit bad this season, and Button isn't doing MUCH better than him. For example I don't think the majority of us would put money on Button beating Lewis over the season, even though he might. I'd say most of us are looking at 50/50.
6. This one is harsh but true. Elite drivers never finish a season with less points than any driver, except another elite driver. This doesn't discount Alonso or Button as Hamilton is elite, but it does discount Kubica I'd say for being beaten by Heidfeld once.
Is he "Elite"? Your discretion. This is just my 2c, and feel free to call me a tosser!
1. Qualifying speed - An elite driver should be the number one driver in his team when it comes to qualifying. This is a hurdle Button falls at.
2. Overtaking ability must be present - Button passes quite well, but I do think he's a bit fortunate people don't turn into him more often.
3. Consistency - Obvious. Button manages it(except seasons where he's gone missing).
4. Wet weather driving is often a get elite quick method of getting up there with the best, it's perceived as an ultimate measure of skill. Button is good in changeable conditions(although I think a good bit of this is luck/skill when it comes to picking strategy), but not fantastic in absolute wet(Korea 2010 being a big example... no massive excursions, just fantastically slow).
5. You have to make your teammate look awful - Negotiable one to be honest, Lewis is making himself look a bit bad this season, and Button isn't doing MUCH better than him. For example I don't think the majority of us would put money on Button beating Lewis over the season, even though he might. I'd say most of us are looking at 50/50.
6. This one is harsh but true. Elite drivers never finish a season with less points than any driver, except another elite driver. This doesn't discount Alonso or Button as Hamilton is elite, but it does discount Kubica I'd say for being beaten by Heidfeld once.
Is he "Elite"? Your discretion. This is just my 2c, and feel free to call me a tosser!
We? - Don't include me in your generalisation Cowboy: I've always considered Button to be a "top driver".
the Button of 2011 is not the Button we've all grown used to. Based on this years performances I'd say he was definitly elite, the only drivers I think may have outperformed him are Vettel and Alonso.
Well said cosi it got the point across far better than my ramblings. the word we is what was bugging me most of all, nobody speaks on my behalf
In response to those moaning about me generalising everyone, all i see is people saying button is nowhere near as good as hamilton. Don't have a go at me when i point it out, bunch of bloody hypocrites.
I'm not "having a go at you" Cowboy! Why on earth do you think that? I'm just saying that I am at odds with the generalisation you made! For that matter, I got the impression this was exactly what Mephisto was saying.
Don't take it personally. It is unfortunate that you seem so quick to react with insults such as "bunch of bloody hypocrites". Your comment was reasonable until that; particularly when neither of us are being hypocritical! When you see something you don't like, try what others often do: take a chill pill and consider the bigger picture…