International Stuff

[littleDinosaurLuke]

Unless I'm missing someone glaringly obvious - who has emerged in the past 12 years who's been arguably better than Rooney yet hasn't featured?

Rooney is a number 10 and has played there when Owen or Crouch or Defoe or Heskey was the main striker. The alternative would have been to play Scholes or Gerrard in that position, but Rooney was the better option and they were better in midfield.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...cord-increase-motivation-Euro-2016-glory.html
So Messi has been singing Rooney's praises - but what does that little fella know? You can't see him scoring those headed goals Shearer or Lofthouse scored for England? And has he got a thunderbolt shot like Charlton?
Oh - and a measly 49 international goals in 105 games. Play him often enough and he's bound to score, eh?

 

[Citizen Kane]

Rooney is a number 10 and has played there when Owen or Crouch or Defoe or Heskey was the main striker. The alternative would have been to play Scholes or Gerrard in that position, but Rooney was the better option and they were better in midfield.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...cord-increase-motivation-Euro-2016-glory.html
So Messi has been singing Rooney's praises - but what does that little fella know? You can't see him scoring those headed goals Shearer or Lofthouse scored for England? And has he got a thunderbolt shot like Charlton?
Oh - and a measly 49 international goals in 105 games. Play him often enough and he's bound to score, eh?

Agreed. Messi has definitely - like Rooney imo - failed to replicate his club form at international level. The same can be said about a number of players though.

At first, I used to think that this was simply because England weren't as good as United or Argentina weren't as good as Barca; but then the likes of Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic (the latter in particular as he shines in a bang average intl team) kind of disprove that theory. They also disprove my second theory that Messi and Rooney have much more pressure on their shoulders to perform at intl level than they do at club level.

So I'm out of theories basically...

 

[The Changing Man]

Agreed. Messi has definitely - like Rooney imo - failed to replicate his club form at international level. The same can be said about a number of players though.

At first, I used to think that this was simply because England weren't as good as United or Argentina weren't as good as Barca; but then the likes of Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic (the latter in particular as he shines in a bang average intl team) kind of disprove that theory. They also disprove my second theory that Messi and Rooney have much more pressure on their shoulders to perform at intl level than they do at club level.

So I'm out of theories basically...

Some players just never really adapt to international football and others just get it straight away, I think this is best shown by John Barnes an absolutely amazing club player for Liverpool and other than that goal in the Maracana a largely disappointing international career, counter balanced with Darren Anderton a good player for Spurs when fit, but put on that England shirt and he went to another level, and some might say Andros Townsend maybe another, he has so far had more great moments in a very short fledgling England career than he has had in his matches for us.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Jake Forster-Caskey of Brighton looked composed in the Euro U21 qualifiers in a pivot alongside Carroll - only to bafflingly lose his place in the team for the tournament itself to Chalobah because Chelsea > Brighton

Even more baffling, as Chalobah is a typical Chelsea youth player, which means that he's never played for the club.
Big loan for him this season, though.

 

[PowerSpurs]

Agreed. Messi has definitely - like Rooney imo - failed to replicate his club form at international level. The same can be said about a number of players though.

At first, I used to think that this was simply because England weren't as good as United or Argentina weren't as good as Barca; but then the likes of Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic (the latter in particular as he shines in a bang average intl team) kind of disprove that theory. They also disprove my second theory that Messi and Rooney have much more pressure on their shoulders to perform at intl level than they do at club level.

So I'm out of theories basically...

I suspect randomness coupled with different standards of opponents explains most of it. Especially for players like Townsend who have played insufficient matches for both Spurs and England to be sure if he is any good or not.

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

International football is second best to club football now. Major tournaments are after 60-70 game seasons for the top players . It's hardly surprising the likes of Messi and Ronaldo don't perform as consistently in June or July when they have been primed to peak in the preceding months and are knackered by the time international tournaments come around. Rooney has gone into a number of tournaments carrying injuries he wouldn't have been risked with by Utd. But World Cups are played only once every four years so let's see if he can manage three or four games. And yes, it is different now. Players play around 10-15 games in the CL and 5 or 6 international games during the season in between the league and domestic cup games. Games are generally played at a faster pace and greater intensity than those in the past. Athleticism is a major feature of the modern game. Playing in the heat of summer after a long season is bound to blunt the effectiveness of even a player like Ronaldo.
If you look at the international records of Messi, Rooney and Ronaldo, they are all very similar re goals/games ratio in total and in tournament games. Rooney and Ronaldo score lots in qualifiers, Messi loads in friendlies.