International Stuff

[NSIS]

This is the point NSIS. Muller was a great striker and that's why he mullered the lesser teams. Roooney isn't an out and out striker, but nonetheless his goalscoring record, especially in qualifying, is impressive by any standards. His recent record is good too - 22 goals in his last 34 internationals.

Given the very ordinary standard of England teams over the last 12 years, the expectation placed on him (which means he's a marked man in every game so far the opposition are concerned) and the way in which even the lesser teams have become organised and hard to beat, his consistency in continuing to score important goals is commendable.

Gerd Muller scored against all teams, not just the minnows. His record in the Budesliga stood for many, many years.
Teams in those days made it difficult too - especially those like Ifaly, but Muller scored against all of them.

Rooney is ok, but not in Muller's league

 

[redwhiteandermblue]

Qualifying has got easier now, more places at both WC & Euros and more mediocre teams due to the break up of Russia and Yugoslavia in the groups.

Looking back to the World Cups we didn't qualify for in 1974 & 1978 (ancient history to some here), in 74 we only had Wales and Poland in our group and 78 we had Italy, Finland & Luxembourg.

The 73 Poland game at Wembley I can still recall where we had to win, possibly the most one sided 1-1 draw I have ever seen, and Poland went on finish 3rd in Germany, and we only lost out to Italy in 78 on goal difference.

But I certainly don't envisage out performance in tournaments improving much in France next year, though we should get out of the group (with 16 teams going through)

That's a good point, but even given that qualifying is easier now, England has qualified exceptionally easily since Crouch scored a brace in the losing effort against Croatia. Half the other big name teams seem to stumble, while England has gone sailing through the last few times. They have had some notably easy groups, it has to be said.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

English-born Filipino striker Phil Younghusband has scored 42 in 71 internationals.
Does this guy exist? That name...

He had a twin brother I think too, I saw them play for Chelsea in a youth game a very long time ago. I think one of them was a 'keeper and I'm glad I've remembered their names, I knew it would come of use one day

 

[vimhawk]

Better sides should have more competition for places and end up with less players with a ton of caps.
That reduces the opportunity for them to get on the list as much as the quality of the opposition.
There are some exceptions, as players end up getting picked on reputation instead of form (ahem), but I think it generally holds up....

What PNP said. Sometimes the answer is simpler than we would like to think. There are (or at least were) a lot of striking options that could get picked and it would take an exceptional striker to keep his place (and at the same time not get a long term injury). However if you continue to pick the striker regardless of how they are playing, then they stand a good chance at the record. As was mentioned, some of the weaker nations may only have one option, so they get a lot of caps and sometimes consequently, a lot of goals. Not sure the England team is picked on merit. I am sure the instant Sturridge is available again, he will replace Kane.

 

[redwhiteandermblue]

What PNP said. Sometimes the answer is simpler than we would like to think. There are (or at least were) a lot of striking options that could get picked and it would take an exceptional striker to keep his place (and at the same time not get a long term injury). However if you continue to pick the striker regardless of how they are playing, then they stand a good chance at the record. As was mentioned, some of the weaker nations may only have one option, so they get a lot of caps and sometimes consequently, a lot of goals. Not sure the England team is picked on merit. I am sure the instant Sturridge is available again, he will replace Kane.

I thought I saw something in Hodgson's expression when he was watching Kane score against Switzerland. I thought he was thinking, "maybe with Kane we can beat somebody decent once in a while."

 

[KingHotspur]

I think Lidls is just picking specific countries. Those countries probably have actual competition for places, though.
Keane's played for absolutely ages and has outscored Rooney by quite a bit. Ronaldo's up to 55 now, having been in a similar, unchallenged position.

Surely Rooney has been in the same position as Keane and Ronaldo though, all three are easily the best option for their country and so have well over 100 caps.

For me Keane's record is the most impressive out of the three because Ireland aren't as good as England and Portugal so get harder qualifying groups for the Euros and WC.

 

[Citizen Kane]

Have to agree with KH here. It's all well and good highlighting the fact that Rooney isn't in the same league as history's truly great strikers, and that for the media to launch an 'Is Rooney the best ever English striker?' is an insult to the likes of Shearer, Charlton, Greaves, Hurst, Matthews, Lineker etc. However, since he burst onto the scene 12 years ago, who as there been who we could look at and say 'If Rooney didn't play for United that bloke would be in the team instead of him'?

When your alternative options are Emile Heskey, Michael Ricketts, David Nugent, Andy Carroll, James Beattie, Rickie Lambert and so forth, why wouldn't you pick Rooney? I'm far from convinced by Sturridge - I think he needs a Suarez level player next to him to bring the best out in him. Kane is really the only striker in recent years to have come through with a genuine shout at taking Rooney's place - and I think the player himself confirmed this in his comments to the media today.

Unless I'm missing someone glaringly obvious - who has emerged in the past 12 years who's been arguably better than Rooney yet hasn't featured?

 

[Spurm]

Sturridge is crocked. He's been by far the best of the bunch other than Kane though. If fit he's probably still ahead of Kane at the moment.

You missed Welbeck, and Carlton Cole! He was the new young hope at one point.

 

[Hoddle is a god]

Kane is England's only hope of true glory.

 

[Spurm]

Kane is England's only hope of true glory.

With Barkley behind. I like the look of Barkley, but needs development.

 

[Spurf]

Kane is not flash but he is deceptively good. Has a great football brain and does the simple things very well indeed.

 

[Hoddle is a god]

Plus, he has grown immensely in both stature and confidence, Spurf, which every great sportsman needs to do, if they are to excel.

 

[Spurf]

Plus, he has grown immensely in both stature and confidence, Spurf, which every great sportsman needs to do, if they are to excel.

That's right although I was impressed with his self confidence from the start. He never rushed about just trying to impress, he seems to have an old head on his shoulders.

 

[Spurf]

Who is England's next main man in midfield?
Who will be the general?

 

[Spurm]

Who is England's next main man in midfield?
Who will be the general?

Dier!

 

[Spurf]

Dier!

Good shout Spurm.

 

[Hoddle is a god]

I reckon that Mason has a few more upward steps he can take - with Kane as his primary inspiration - to stamp his mark on that England midfield.

 

[Spurf]

I reckon that Mason has a few more upward steps he can take - with Kane as his primary inspiration - to stamp his mark on that England midfield.

It's interesting when we talk about our players in this way we start to see the potential of our current squad.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Wilshere might be in with a shout, if he could sort out his attitude and fitness record.
Ward-Prowse at Southampton looks a real prospect.
Delle Alli looks comfortable in the Premier League already, though it's too soon to judge.

Where's the holding player to pair with any of them, though?
Dier's adjusted to the role very quickly, but he's only had a handful of games there.
Anyone else is either not good enough, a liability or both.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Wilshere might be in with a shout, if he could sort out his attitude and fitness record.
Ward-Prowse at Southampton looks a real prospect.
Delle Alli looks comfortable in the Premier League already, though it's too soon to judge.

Where's the holding player to pair with any of them, though?
Dier's adjusted to the role very quickly, but he's only had a handful of games there.
Anyone else is either not good enough, a liability or both.

Jake Forster-Caskey of Brighton looked composed in the Euro U21 qualifiers in a pivot alongside Carroll - only to bafflingly lose his place in the team for the tournament itself to Chalobah because Chelsea > Brighton