Off Topic International Break Thread

["Thanks for that Brian"]

Is a 2-0 win at home to Malta actually worse than losing 2-1 Iceland?

It sure feels like it. It's another game where we were, at best, as bad as we were in the summer. Maybe, there was a slight improvement in the first half but against a team as bad as Malta are going to be, it is very hard to judge. However, the second half was god awful.

We're in free fall at the moment and there's nobody capable of leading us into changing it in the current set-up. Southgate's a decent and honourable bloke but he wasn't capable of keeping 'Boro in the PL. What has he done to suggest he can turn round decades of decline in our national team? Rooney's a spent force. Whatever he had to offer England was shot a long time ago. The management aren't football people and are unlikely to do anything other than make choices to cover their own arses. The FA were desperate to extend Roy's contract before this summer's unveiling of the Emperor as being naked. Sam was a deviation from their usual type of pick. Having got that spectacularly wrong, they won't be going anywhere near anyone who could be controversial. Nobody with any career ambitions and alternative options would touch it with a barge pole. The next manager will be safe and it's almost certainly going to be Southgate unless the media decide otherwise and savage him over the next 3 games. There's a fair chance that they'll have that opportunity.

Southgate showing complete lack of tactical acumen by sending Jamie 'one trick pony' Vardy on against a team who were never going to offer any space in behind.

Wasn't that desperate. The bloke likes to run into wide open space. So, we send him on against a 10 man deep-lying defence. It's nonsensical. I thought the same about choosing Sturridge, who likes to go wide and deep. Add in Walcott who just doesn't know where to go and Rooney who'll be in goal if he goes any deeper and there's a right ****ing mess of a line-up.

If we have to have Southgate, we desperately need him to work with someone who can help him build a team that has some shape and balance. If he and Hoddle could be enticed into working together....it won't happen, of course. We are royally screwed and I'd rather we didn't qualify for the WC than go in our current state.

 

[The Changing Man]

English Strikers, the cupboard is nearly bare! Beyond those picked in this squad and Harry, the only others come immediately to mind are Defoe, Carroll, Crouch, Berahino, Deeney and Ings and then maybe Redmond and Watmore. Looking at those would it be the worst decision to pick Defoe as the player most likely to be able to have an impact from the bench, if you are not playing Rashford through the middle.

 

[The RDBD]

It is must be understood by now, that at PL and at international level,
the Bus is the fashionable and effective means of suffocating far better
teams than yourself. Therefore better teams must choose a line-up that
has a combination of the following :

- pace down the flanks (go around them)
- MF with fast/accurate passing and good ball control (go through them)
- fast forward ball distribution

Slow crab passing is not on.
Players whose first touch under the slightest of opposition pressure puts
the ball 3 yds from their feet are next to useless.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

English Strikers, the cupboard is nearly bare! Beyond those picked in this squad and Harry, the only others come immediately to mind are Defoe, Carroll, Crouch, Berahino, Deeney and Ings and then maybe Redmond and Watmore. Looking at those would it be the worst decision to pick Defoe as the player most likely to be able to have an impact from the bench, if you are not playing Rashford through the middle.

I'd have liked to see Deeney play. He has a personality and real heart. He's a leader at his club. He's also very skillful and decent in the air which would have been useful against a team that was going to let us have opportunities to cross the ball into the area. Unlike Rooney and Sturridge, he plays for his club side.

 

[The Changing Man]

I'd have liked to see Deeney play. He has a personality and real heart. He's a leader at his club. He's also very skillful and decent in the air which would have been useful against a team that was going to let us have opportunities to cross the ball into the area. Unlike Rooney and Sturridge, he plays for his club side.

I wouldn't disagree with that at all and in Harrys absence he would have been the logical choice but that's where it falls down!

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

I wouldn't disagree with that at all and in Harrys absence he would have been the logical choice but that's where it falls down!

He'd be a bit of a throw-back to when Steve Bull (Wolves), David Platt (Villa) and the like made the team. People pay lip service to Rooney being a great captain, although I've never once seen any evidence of it on the pitch. Deeney is such a leader. He's been the subject of enquiries from 'bigger' clubs but has never waivered in staying at Watford and being captain and leader. I'm not suggesting we appoint him England captain but bringing him on the pitch if things aren't going well would be a big boost. He's that kind of bloke that lifts people's spirits.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I think that Rooney's getting unnecessary stick for something that's not really his fault.
Yes, he was awful and he hasn't played particularly well for quite a long time, but he doesn't select himself.
He shouldn't be starting at the moment, especially in the deep playmaker role, which doesn't suit him at all.

Endless slow, sideways passes followed by an attempt to play someone in, which was inevitably overhit. So predictable.
Taking every set-piece and providing nothing from them, despite superior alternatives.
He also looked slow, lacked confidence and his fitness is questionable.
He'll be captain for every game for the foreseeable future, though.

Picking a balanced England side shouldn't be difficult and doing it against Malta should be easy.
Only selecting three fullbacks and two central midfielders is just dumb.
Failing to replace an injured defenders is mystifying.

The U21 side fared little better, starting with no strikers and scraping past Kazakhstan with a 1-0 victory.
Left Tammy Abraham on the bench until the last five minutes, despite him scoring 11 goals this season.
82% possession, no strikers and one goal. The whole set-up's suspect.

 

[The RDBD]

Picking a balanced England side shouldn't be difficult and doing it against Malta should be easy.
Only selecting three fullbacks and two central midfielders is just dumb.
Failing to replace an injured defenders is mystifying.

The U21 side fared little better, starting with no strikers and scraping past Kazakhstan with a 1-0 victory.
Left Tammy Abraham on the bench until the last five minutes, despite him scoring 11 goals this season.
82% possession, no strikers and one goal. The whole set-up's suspect.

Perhaps there are systemic issues in the England set-up regarding which qualities
are currently valued most in a player. It wouldn't be the first time this happened.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Perhaps there are systemic issues in the England set-up regarding which qualities
are currently valued most in a player. It wouldn't be the first time this happened.

Having large sponsorship deals and playing for the right club appear to top the list at the moment, unfortunately.
Previous work under Gareth Southgate comes a close second, judging by Lingard's selection.

 

[vimhawk]

He'd be a bit of a throw-back to when Steve Bull (Wolves), David Platt (Villa) and the like made the team. People pay lip service to Rooney being a great captain, although I've never once seen any evidence of it on the pitch. Deeney is such a leader. He's been the subject of enquiries from 'bigger' clubs but has never waivered in staying at Watford and being captain and leader. I'm not suggesting we appoint him England captain but bringing him on the pitch if things aren't going well would be a big boost. He's that kind of bloke that lifts people's spirits.

But we've never tried to play to our strengths such as pace and power, and direct to the head of people who can head. Look how much impact Crouch made, but of course he had to be dropped in favour of "better" strikers when his international goal scoring record is amazing. And bringing someone off the bench doesn't mean bringing on someone exactly the same as what hasn't worked, it means someone like Carrol. For too long we've been trying to copy successful international teams when they are years ahead of us in what they do, instead of imposing on them our own style. So people like Deeney will never get a look in but Rooney will play until he retires and be heralded (by the pundits not the people actually watching the game) as England's greatest player. Good grief.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

The whole set-up's suspect.

Might it be time to get some experienced football people involved at the FA? I've hear thatit's is quite common in other fields to employ people with relevant experience.

Martin Glenn is a chocolate salesman. Dan Ashworth has a football background as far as youth development at WBA and Cambridge is concerned. However, he's no international experience at all. There must be more relevantly qualified people out there?

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

You must log in or register to see media

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you're dropped.

 

[Citizen Kane]

Toby with a cheeky backheel against Bosnia

You must log in or register to see media

The only part of this clip that annoyed me was when Toby returned Eden Hazard's high five. Should've left the little bastard hanging.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

I think that Rooney's getting unnecessary stick for something that's not really his fault.
Yes, he was awful and he hasn't played particularly well for quite a long time, but he doesn't select himself.
He shouldn't be starting at the moment, especially in the deep playmaker role, which doesn't suit him at all.

Endless slow, sideways passes followed by an attempt to play someone in, which was inevitably overhit. So predictable.
Taking every set-piece and providing nothing from them, despite superior alternatives.
He also looked slow, lacked confidence and his fitness is questionable.
He'll be captain for every game for the foreseeable future, though.

Picking a balanced England side shouldn't be difficult and doing it against Malta should be easy.
Only selecting three fullbacks and two central midfielders is just dumb.
Failing to replace an injured defenders is mystifying.

The U21 side fared little better, starting with no strikers and scraping past Kazakhstan with a 1-0 victory.
Left Tammy Abraham on the bench until the last five minutes, despite him scoring 11 goals this season.
82% possession, no strikers and one goal. The whole set-up's suspect.

At this point in his career (international and club) one wonders what his motivations are. England aren't going to win anything before he's said he will retire. He's admitted his pace isn't what it was and it's clear, at international level, that as a forward or a no. 10, his days are done. He'll know, deep down, that he was shocking in the Euro's both as a player and a captain. He has no experience whatsoever of playing the role he's being picked for and it's showing badly. When he plays that role his teams struggle and often lose and are severely disappointing.

Does he really expect to improve at international football in a position that he's not playing in at his club? He really can't be that stupid can he? No matter how much smoke is blown up his backside by Sam and Roy and Gareth, he knows that he doesn't offer his teams anything worthwhile at this point. His confidence is at a point where even the dead ball stuff that shouldn't deteriorate with age, has gone to rat ****.

If he wants to play for England in the deep-lying position then he has to go to a club who are going to play him there and he needs to do it in the January transfer window. He won't do it. The money and prestige of being at United will come first. Failing that, He needs to call it a day at international level. The decent, money paying customers can sense that something's got to give and when that happens, your time's up, mate. It's time for the hacks to finish the job if he won't.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

At this point in his career (international and club) one wonders what his motivations are. England aren't going to win anything before he's said he will retire. He's admitted his pace isn't what it was and it's clear, at international level, that as a forward or a no. 10, his days are done. He'll know, deep down, that he was shocking in the Euro's both as a player and a captain. He has no experience whatsoever of playing the role he's being picked for and it's showing badly. When he plays that role his teams struggle and often lose and are severely disappointing.

Does he really expect to improve at international football in a position that he's not playing in at his club? He really can't be that stupid can he? No matter how much smoke is blown up his backside by Sam and Roy and Gareth, he knows that he doesn't offer his teams anything worthwhile at this point. His confidence is at a point where even the dead ball stuff that shouldn't deteriorate with age, has gone to rat ****.

If he wants to play for England in the deep-lying position then he has to go to a club who are going to play him there and he needs to do it in the January transfer window. He won't do it. The money and prestige of being at United will come first. Failing that, He needs to call it a day at international level. The decent, money paying customers can sense that something's got to give and when that happens, your time's up, mate. It's time for the hacks to finish the job if he won't.

He's never been good with accepting criticism, though. He's probably blaming someone else.
He's had a poor couple of seasons, by his standards. So have his team and national side, though.
I assume that he's looking at how badly each of his managers have done and thinks that he can regain his form under good ones.

 

[The RDBD]

I suspect that Rooney may retire from England selection quite soon, depending
on how Jose uses him at Man Utd. He has not done enough for England level now
to warrant selection regardless of club form (negating the "form is temporary,
class is permanent" cliche) , and his club form does not warrant selection either.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

He's never been good with accepting criticism, though. He's probably blaming someone else.
He's had a poor couple of seasons, by his standards. So have his team and national side, though.
I assume that he's looking at how badly each of his managers have done and thinks that he can regain his form under good ones.

Absolutely right. However, the fact that his close control, passing and free kicks are suffering so badly suggest that something's troubling that thing on top of his shoulders. He can blame others if he wants to but deep down he knows that something's badly wrong and needs addressing somehow. He's not got that many friends at United given his selfish and petulant behaviour over the years and Mourinho's not going to show him so much favour that it runs the risk of losing him his prize job.

At this point he needs a friendly influence on his career. Someone like Moyes at Sunderland would be a good friend to turn to. They patched things up and he'd be a good fit at Sunderland right now, if only on loan until the summer. If he did that, then I'd have a lot more time for him. Come out in the press and state that he's going to Sunderland to ensure his international future and play regularly and I'd have some new found respect for him. If he played well there then he'd deserve his place and some of what is being said about him now. Being on United's bench as a no. 9.5 and playing no.4 for England isn't going to work.His fault or not, that's a truth that he can't hide from.

 

[Citizen Kane]

I think he is driven by a sense of pride and duty, but mainly the former. We forget that he was heralded as England's lord and saviour when he burst onto the scene at an Owen-esque age of 18 with a fine tournament in 2004. The fact that the 6 major tournaments since will remember him for a bitterly disappointing cocktail of petulance, injury and underperformance will weigh down on his shoulders, especially now that he has, to his credit, matured into quite a balanced individual who as an ambassador for his country stands in stark contrast to the foul-mouth yob who shouted abuse down the lens of a camera in South Africa. It really is amazing what affects a hair transplant can have on a person.

He reminds me a lot of David Beckham in this regard, another player who cared deeply for his country and simply wouldn't let the issue rest until he'd 'redeemed' himself in the public eye.That free kick against Greece went a long way towards banishing his demons, but he is another player who should've hung up his boots a few years sooner than he did. Rooney is hanging on for dear life, clutching at the last straws of his underwhelming international career in the hope that he can finally fulfill his role as St Wayne of the Mersey.

If I didn't hate the man so much, I'd actually feel sorry for him. It's a bit like going to a bar in town and seeing the 50-something was-attractive-once-upon-a-time people with too much botox clinging desperately to an illusion of youth. It's a bit sad, really.

 

[The RDBD]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37598940

<BBC>
Southgate compared Rooney to long-term England servants such as John Terry, Frank Lampard and Ashley Cole as he added: "They kept turning out and really put themselves on the line. Some other players have not put themselves forward at those moments and withdrawn from squads when the going has got tough."
Those guys are the people that really desperately wanted to play for England again and again and again and put their necks on the block. Wayne falls into that category.
</BBC>

Loadsa players have been like that, whether they played once or 100 times.
The point is that the England manager is supposed to have the nous / authority to
decide when a players' England service may be done on performance, not on the above.

Southgate is literally shaping up to be "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" .

 

[The Changing Man]

I suspect that Rooney may retire from England selection quite soon, .

I wish I shared your optimism! I think as long as managers are prepared to pick him he will keep turning up. That for me is one reason that Southgate has already failed his audition. I am reminded of the first thing Bobby Robson did, which was tell Keegan he was no longer required.

Robsons tenure seems to be remembered with great affection, proof if it were needed that its results that matter (particularly in your last tournament). He left a hero having lost a WC semi on pens to the Germans. A tournament where we played well twice, in the aforementioned semi and in a goal less draw with a good dutch side. In his other WC we lost to the hand of God, again playing well just twice after his best team fell in his lap following injury and suspension to his 1st choice midfield. His Euro record is best not mentioned failing to qualify in 84 and losing all 3 matches (something even Hodgson bettered) in 1988.