We are a very good side. Just misfiring a bit while all the new players are gelling. And its astonishing that you can judge our new signings on such a short period. I remember when Bale was being described as 'clueless' on 606.
If AVB fails....
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We are a very good side. Just misfiring a bit while all the new players are gelling. And its astonishing that you can judge our new signings on such a short period. I remember when Bale was being described as 'clueless' on 606.
Why would you assume its criticising the players? too many similar types being asked to play unfamiliar roles that don't suit their 'best' attributes. I don't need any great length of time to see that.
I said recently there's a good side there being played all wrong, and I still stick by that.
Agreed -
Modric, Bale and Sandro all took a while to get up to speed.
Andros and Walker needed a loan at a prem team.
VDV was an exceptional player who hit the ground running, but not many players will do that.
The "we are only 1-2 players short" was in reference to the first team, which may agree has lost some quality, but the players we have now are younger and we have better depth on the bench.
Rose = better long term than Benny
Chiriches = better long term than Gallas, and better suited to ball retention than Caulker
Lloris = better than brad in every way
Paulinho = seems to have more goals in him than Luca did and is still adapting
Townsend = more strings to his bow than Lennon apeared to have on the right
Holtby/Eriksen = More long term than VDV
So whilst the team may have gone backwards slightly, we were never going to be able to play VDV, Parker, Gallas, Friedal or Benny for too long anyway.
I have 100% faith in the squad we have now (maybe not compared to there transfer fee) my only gripe is the way we attack.
H
Hoddle is a god
Guest
Some fair points, there, notso. The way I see it, though, is that we're suffering the teething problems of trying to adapt to a more (for want of a better expression) "Barcelona" style of playing. 4-4-2 has been so ingrained in the culture of our club that it's practically part of the fabric, and shifting from playing that system is more than simply trying to teach old dogs new tricks, it requires a complete overhaul in both players and coaches. What I think we are seeing with the team, at the moment, is the last remnants of a clash between the old culture and the new. By that, I mean that I can see the fruits of the new system beginning to ripen, and I am confident that the team will play will greater freedom, expression and adventure in the very near future.
Who's playing an unfamiliar role, Notso?
Vertonghen and Naughton have both been used in a position that doesn't suit them particularly, but they've both played there a lot. That's enforced by injury, though.
I'm with PowerSpurs on this one. We've had a lot of changes over the last couple of seasons and lost a lot of good players.
Some of our performances haven't been top drawer, but we've had a good start to the campaign in terms of results. 12 clean sheets in 15 games, too. Unheard of.
If Villas-Boas can keep the defence solid and get the talent that we have in attacking roles working as well, then we're onto a good thing, surely?
The current formation is hardly worlds away from the one under harry.
Four at the back, with full backs bombing on
two in the middle, one ball winner (sandro replacing Parker) one ball player (dembele/Paulinho over Thud/modric)
two wingers (albeit "inverted")
One deep lying striker (Holtby/CE over VDV)
One lone striker (last year Ade this year Soldado)
The only difference I see is position on the pitch of sweeper keeper and high defensive line, speed of passing and willingness to take risks.
Compare that to Martinez and Rogders getting Wigan and Liverpool to play 4-3-3 or 3-5-2 and you can see tactically we are not all that different from Harry.
I apreciate the defending record is better, but we are not exactly Chelsea 2005, or utd 2008 + 2009 in terms of looking solid in game.
H
Hoddle is a god
Guest
With the reliance on only one striker, the emphasis is less on out and out wingers getting cross-after-cross in the box, and more on passing the ball through teams. That is a completely different type of play that we have been used to at the Lane.
H
Hoddle is a god
Guest
With the reliance on only one striker, the emphasis is less on out and out wingers getting cross-after-cross in the box, and more on passing the ball through teams. That is a completely different type of play that we have been used to at the Lane.
The unfamiliar role of trying to play this tika-taka Barca style in a narrow central area, pass accuracy often exposed, and not enough of them have a consistant first touch. It takes an exceptional group of players with natural talent which Barca have. Don't get me wrong we have players who can play a pass as we've seen, but to be reliant on it as planA isn't working, because imo we don't have enough players who can interchange, which in turn makes us predictable, which we're seeing as teams camp in front of us. I could rattle on but the gist here is I think we have some very good technical players, but not enough for this style, Andros the only one really giving any high tempo stuff and getting behind FB's like we're more used too... and we didn't have to buy him.
I don't know how we are where we are tbh, but I don't think you should be using the misleading clean sheet stat ( I know you've used it because I said not to elsewhere!) when you're very vocal discussing the numerous mistakes all our defenders have made, our defence has been all over the place at times...solid?? thats a stretch! and 3 one nil wins with a penalty masking a poor performance is also just as unheard of!
I've been meaning to make this point for days. The current system requires our players to pass accurately, read the game better, make more intelligent runs etc than I think they're actually capable of. To play well when you've restricted all the space you need very, very good players. I'm not sure that the players we have are good enough to make this high line, inverted-wingers, compressed space style work. They're certainly making it look bloody hard right now!
One thing that would help, though, is if there was simply more movement in the last third. It all looks so pedestrian and is so ineffective because there seems to be so little movement in front a player when our midfield has the ball 40 or so yards out. Cos you can always improve on simply quantity of runs. Well, almost.
You know what though? I just realise that, since AVB has been our manager, I've even assumed that this lack of runs also had some statistical/scientific backing - as if AVB has told them not to waste energy but conserve it for those moments when it'll definitely be needed. This is so typical of how my thinking's been under AVB's reign - I see something happening on the pitch and assume it's all parts of AVB's statistically-driven model of how to win football matches. Might be true might not but what it reflects is my constant attempts to work out the basic question of "How the hell do we keep winning matches?".
I've noticed recently Walker and Vertonghen when they have the ball, throwing their arms up gesturing to show for them because there's nothing on, same last season aswell.
It's also reliant on the opposition playing more open attacking football as they do in La Liga. The majority of teams will come to WHL playing not to lose, that's just the Premier League for you.
Just as Rafa's been mentioned on here, I thought I'd point out his start in Italy.
Won 8, drawn 1, lost 1, scored 21, conceded 7. Pretty nice stuff, on paper.
Won 8, drawn 1, lost 1, scored 21, conceded 7. Pretty nice stuff, on paper.
You're focusing on individual players and assuming once they all settle, or if they settle then as a team unit they will all click into place and form an exciting team unit.
That is nothing more then Wishful thinking and you're ignoring the issue comes from Avb and his management.
Avb installs a defensive attitude in the team, he was trained as a scout on how to stifle and nullify the opposition and control the game and with that mentality it shows, as currently that's what we excel at.
If you want to see us play an attacking game, then we can sell our attacking players with potential and replace them with Xavi, Iniesta, Ozil, carzola and just let them pass the ball.
With our current squad, Eriksen, Lamela, Holtby, our three natural creative players won't progress with Avb and his system and likely only to perform in short bursts or in cup games against crap opposition.
I first went to a Spurs game in 1967 and AVB is the first Spurs manager since Nicholson who understands ghat you have to build the attacking play on a solid system and that getting the details right matters.
It is still possible that I'm completely wrong on this but he needs 3 seasons at least before ws judge the outcome of such a large change to our approach
It is still possible that I'm completely wrong on this but he needs 3 seasons at least before ws judge the outcome of such a large change to our approach
Two touch football is the issue as far as I can see it. The Chavs broke down the goons easily with one touch stuff. Citeh do it all the time. We seem to take one touch to control and one touch to pass. It gives the park the bus merchants time to think. It may come with time which could be the 'gelling' issue, but a player needs to know where he is going to pass the ball before he receives it. It changes the pace of the game, at the moment we are too predictable.
All I'd add here is this gelling issue, I don't buy it, you can improve a player touch and technique, certain things are coachable, but a lot isn't, intuitive vision for a start, you can't teach what players like Eriksen and Modric see in a split second when a pass is on, otherwise everyone could do it. Dembele is a prime example here, great feet and technique but rarely see's a telling pass.
AVB has bought 7 players is it to supposedly improve the way he wants his team to play, in fact all signings since Sig have his mark on them, and although he didn't spot Sig himself, he ok'd the deal, presumably having cast his detailed eye over the player. To me a few look like a fish out of water with it to me, indicating poor use of the Bale money.
I don't give a toss that our play is boring at the moment,we have had our best P/L start and are going well in the cups.I belive we will get better,you only have to look At Porto's Europa win under AVB,if that's defensive football,bring it on !