Hull City charged

[originallambrettaman]

Yep. Vagrancy laws have been on the books since at least the 1500s.

The Vagrancy Act 1824 has just been repealed, it's no longer an offence to sleep rough.

 

[Kalman II]

The Vagrancy Act 1824 has just been repealed, it's no longer an offence to sleep rough.

That’s a positive but I was just tacking on to a previous poster replying to Drew’s post about poverty never being criminalised.

 

[Gone For A Walk]

That’s a positive but I was just tacking on to a previous poster replying to Drew’s post about poverty never being criminalised.

Not sure it is a positive.
Imo, there should be something that makes it wrong to sleep rough and to refuse help.
It doesn't help anyone (the rough sleeper, the council, the general public, society, etc) that people can choose to sleep endlessly in doorways etc. Maybe there is something(s) already in place, but I find it so wrong seeing homeless out on the streets and being allowed to turn down help.

 

[bradymk2]

Not sure it is a positive.
Imo, there should be something that makes it wrong to sleep rough and to refuse help.
It doesn't help anyone (the rough sleeper, the council, the general public, society, etc) that people can choose to sleep endlessly in doorways etc. Maybe there is something(s) already in place, but I find it so wrong seeing homeless out on the streets and being allowed to turn down help.

isint some of that because the hostels etc can be incredibly awful places? that sleeping on the street is preferable
but also drug addiction is very hard to break

 

[Ric Glasgow]

Not sure it is a positive.
Imo, there should be something that makes it wrong to sleep rough and to refuse help.
It doesn't help anyone (the rough sleeper, the council, the general public, society, etc) that people can choose to sleep endlessly in doorways etc. Maybe there is something(s) already in place, but I find it so wrong seeing homeless out on the streets and being allowed to turn down help.

Some young lasses on the Streets in Glasgow refuse it due to the environment there being asked to stay in...Sad situation when they feel safer on the Streets than they do in hostels.

 

[Drew]

Yes it has been illegal to be poor, in the UK this is considered to have started in Tudor times and into Victorian. Vagrancy/begging was originally punished by whippings, stocks, enslavement but later was restricted more to imprisonment/fines. Even now some local authorities use civil injunctions and Public Spaces Protection Orders (PSPOs) to fine or penalize individuals for begging and sleeping rough. And obviously plenty of other countries have had laws and do even now.

As for what is direct or indirect and what that means. It may not be obvious that someone is poor, or even that someone is disabled, but it may equally not be obvious that someone is gay. I suppose it's considered a more singular identity to be gay and the others have a lot more variety? Even that is probably questionable actually. I think the main point is they have a group protecting their rights better than many others have.

This is splitting hairs a bit - but I don’t think it being illegal to beg is the same as ‘being illegal to be poor’. They aren’t mutually exclusive, even though I find it distasteful to make it illegal. I accept your point on vagrancy though.

 

[The Omega Man]

The Vagrancy Act 1824 has just been repealed, it's no longer an offence to sleep rough.

I have been doing some community on the homeless policy of my council.
When I left the Army, I had a choice, move back to Hull or stay down south and choose the later.
The job I thought I was walking into, didn’t happen.
I hid in the barracks for a couple of weeks and then tried to get B&B. I ended up in a room with six blokes. I had a job driving a tipper on motorway construction, when I got back, my case was by the door and I had no where to sleep, nothing to eat after a 12 hour shift.
Friends came and picked me up and I stayed with them for 3 months until they kicked me out.
I got a flat in the red light district (the only one that I could get after trying dozens.)
I also got a job with a forklift company that gave me access to a pickup truck that I could drive to Hull.
I had hitchhiked up twice to see my parents. One time it took about 28 hours. I spent about ten hours walking down the A1 in the dark, which was more than a bit difficult.
It was hard, I was stuck between pride and hopelessness.
I didn’t ever beg for anything, I wanted help and at the same time didn’t want to be helped.
I could have simply moved home. Lived with my Mam and Dad. But there was no work in Hull. Even at the worse of times, I could get agency work down here.
I often get told by people in the community that I don’t know what it is like and yet over 40 years ago…

 

[Heimdallr]

I have been doing some community on the homeless policy of my council.
When I left the Army, I had a choice, move back to Hull or stay down south and choose the later.
The job I thought I was walking into, didn’t happen.
I hid in the barracks for a couple of weeks and then tried to get B&B. I ended up in a room with six blokes. I had a job driving a tipper on motorway construction, when I got back, my case was by the door and I had no where to sleep, nothing to eat after a 12 hour shift.
Friends came and picked me up and I stayed with them for 3 months until they kicked me out.
I got a flat in the red light district (the only one that I could get after trying dozens.)
I also got a job with a forklift company that gave me access to a pickup truck that I could drive to Hull.
I had hitchhiked up twice to see my parents. One time it took about 28 hours. I spent about ten hours walking down the A1 in the dark, which was more than a bit difficult.
It was hard, I was stuck between pride and hopelessness.
I didn’t ever beg for anything, I wanted help and at the same time didn’t want to be helped.
I could have simply moved home. Lived with my Mam and Dad. But there was no work in Hull. Even at the worse of times, I could get agency work down here.
I often get told by people in the community that I don’t know what it is like and yet over 40 years ago…

I guess they mean that you didn't have untreated addiction or mental issues and so were able to work your way out of problems and back on the housing ladder.

I don't know what the solution is - seems to be getting worse all over Europe, fewer opportunities for the young to get into careers that can support a family and home and a huge increase in casual/gig employment that doesn't offer financial stability. Add to this drugs and untreated illnesses, and problems are increasing rapidly.

 

[The Omega Man]

I guess they mean that you didn't have untreated addiction or mental issues and so were able to work your way out of problems and back on the housing ladder.

I don't know what the solution is - seems to be getting worse all over Europe, fewer opportunities for the young to get into careers that can support a family and home and a huge increase in casual/gig employment that doesn't offer financial stability. Add to this drugs and untreated illnesses, and problems are increasing rapidly.

I had that as a conversation yesterday.