How long do we give him?

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1950canary said:
Well said Dave - a nice piece of sense and humanity amongst a sea of sickening vitriolic abuse. Wouldn't it be nice if some of the people on here made a mistake at work and had to face customers and the local press hounding their Manager demanding that they are sacked - then they might understand how AN is feeling at this moment in time. I am back in Norfolk at the moment and the conversations I am hearing are sickening especially as we are talking about a Manager who got us promoted against the odds, nearly kept us up and only a few weeks back had us in the automatic promotion places. I agree that something has gone wrong and a change of Manager is virtually guaranteed but will it be for the better? Who knows who it will be. Hughton has been a success wherever he has been and our fans were delighted when he arrived. They were equally delighted when they hounded him out to work miracles at Brighton. Just goes to prove that any Manager can succeed or fail depending on the circumstances and the expectations. I am sure that the so called fans will get their way and AN will go. I have no doubt that the replacement will please some and disappoint others and those who are disappointed will start another hate campaign as soon as we lose a couple of games. After all we are a mighty Club who should be up in the Premiership by right - yeah right!! I miss Norwich and I miss going to Carrow Road every game but I do not miss a lot of the so called supporters. I wish the Club well and will always support them from afar but I do say to the supporters - be careful what you wish for and that caution also applies to anyone who wants the owners and the Board to go as you never know who you end up with.
Dave - if you are reading this. I am home at the moment because my youngest daughter has moved back to Lincoln to do her Masters at the Uni. She is renting a house in Sincil Bank. Had a quick walk up to the ground - bet it has changed a lot since you last saw it!!
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Not watched many of the awful games he's presided over then 1950? I go back to 1959, still still a supporter and will be until it's my time, but I reserve the right to critise where I feel it's warranted, and at the moment it is warranted! As to being hounded, he just needs to sort out the mess he's put us in, not just come out with the same old crap every week. He's had the adoration of the supporters, witness the last game of last season...so it's a rough with the smooth situation. It's down to him and him alone!
 
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1950canary said:
Well said Dave - a nice piece of sense and humanity amongst a sea of sickening vitriolic abuse. Wouldn't it be nice if some of the people on here made a mistake at work and had to face customers and the local press hounding their Manager demanding that they are sacked - then they might understand how AN is feeling at this moment in time. I am back in Norfolk at the moment and the conversations I am hearing are sickening especially as we are talking about a Manager who got us promoted against the odds, nearly kept us up and only a few weeks back had us in the automatic promotion places. I agree that something has gone wrong and a change of Manager is virtually guaranteed but will it be for the better? Who knows who it will be. Hughton has been a success wherever he has been and our fans were delighted when he arrived. They were equally delighted when they hounded him out to work miracles at Brighton. Just goes to prove that any Manager can succeed or fail depending on the circumstances and the expectations. I am sure that the so called fans will get their way and AN will go. I have no doubt that the replacement will please some and disappoint others and those who are disappointed will start another hate campaign as soon as we lose a couple of games. After all we are a mighty Club who should be up in the Premiership by right - yeah right!! I miss Norwich and I miss going to Carrow Road every game but I do not miss a lot of the so called supporters. I wish the Club well and will always support them from afar but I do say to the supporters - be careful what you wish for and that caution also applies to anyone who wants the owners and the Board to go as you never know who you end up with.
Dave - if you are reading this. I am home at the moment because my youngest daughter has moved back to Lincoln to do her Masters at the Uni. She is renting a house in Sincil Bank. Had a quick walk up to the ground - bet it has changed a lot since you last saw it!!
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Midway, I left Lincoln in 2000, the new stand had been built but I dare say it's changed a lot since then. I lived on Arthur Street, about 200 yards from the ground!
 
ilovedelia said:
Not watched many of the awful games he's presided over then 1950? I go back to 1959, still still a supporter and will be until it's my time, but I reserve the right to critise where I feel it's warranted, and at the moment it is warranted! As to being hounded, he just needs to sort out the mess he's put us in, not just come out with the same old crap every week. He's had the adoration of the supporters, witness the last game of last season...so it's a rough with the smooth situation. It's down to him and him alone!
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I accept that having moved I have only seen 1 match but that type of argument works both ways. AN sees his players in training every day and knows the physical and mental state of his squad but that doesn't stop many on here and elsewhere who only see the players for 90 mins once a fortnight at best - and no more than I do at worst - think they know more about team selection than the Manager. Down to him and him alone? Really? Nothing to do with the players? Look at the Newcastle game. 3-1 up with minutes to go - who gets the credit for that? The players quite rightly. To shore that up the Manager puts on another defender and plays the type of system that many Teams play for 90 mins without conceding. We lose 4-3 - who gets the blame for that? Not the players apparently. I am certain that many of the recent complaints are justified but the way that it is turning into personal abuse is unacceptable. I also accept the ' rough and the smooth ' argument but a bad run of games in a few weeks which has seen us fall out of the automatic promotion places into a play-off position does not mean that he is a useless Manager who does not know what he is doing. Like you I go back a long way - to 1950 obviously - and, like me, you can go back to the 1960's when we changed Managers virtually every season without anything improving. Some of these Managers such as Lol Morgan looked good appointments at the time but it was well over 10 years after Macaulay left before Ron Saunders arrived. There are no guarantees with Managerial appointments and some of the best looking ones go sour. Remember the public clamour for Bryan Gunn and Neil Adams? I accept that the reign of AN has probably run it's course but that doesn't make him a bad Manager. As I said earlier look at Hughton - solid looking appointment, previous success at other Clubs, good start here, bad run of games, hounded out by the fans, went to new found success at Brighton - sound familiar? Unfortunately the ' fans' have decided that he has to go and they will still want him out if he manages to steady the ship and stay in the top 6. Same with some players. The fans don't like Naismith. From what I read about the QPR game he was our best player - listen out for the howls if he is in the team next game. How many times do we hear about the disaster of giving 1 year contract extensions to a 3rd choice full back and a 5th choice CB who never play a game between them and are only there for emergencies. Some people just need something to moan about and won't let a few facts get in the way of their prejudice.
 
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canary-dave said:
Midway, I left Lincoln in 2000, the new stand had been built but I dare say it's changed a lot since then. I lived on Arthur Street, about 200 yards from the ground!
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There is now a largish Club Commercial area behind the main stand and the inside of the ground has been considerably modernised and smartened up. One thing that hasn't changed since 2000 - where the f*** do you park your car?
 
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1950canary said:
I accept that having moved I have only seen 1 match but that type of argument works both ways. AN sees his players in training every day and knows the physical and mental state of his squad but that doesn't stop many on here and elsewhere who only see the players for 90 mins once a fortnight at best - and no more than I do at worst - think they know more about team selection than the Manager. Down to him and him alone? Really? Nothing to do with the players? Look at the Newcastle game. 3-1 up with minutes to go - who gets the credit for that? The players quite rightly. To shore that up the Manager puts on another defender and plays the type of system that many Teams play for 90 mins without conceding. We lose 4-3 - who gets the blame for that? Not the players apparently. I am certain that many of the recent complaints are justified but the way that it is turning into personal abuse is unacceptable. I also accept the ' rough and the smooth ' argument but a bad run of games in a few weeks which has seen us fall out of the automatic promotion places into a play-off position does not mean that he is a useless Manager who does not know what he is doing. Like you I go back a long way - to 1950 obviously - and, like me, you can go back to the 1960's when we changed Managers virtually every season without anything improving. Some of these Managers such as Lol Morgan looked good appointments at the time but it was well over 10 years after Macaulay left before Ron Saunders arrived. There are no guarantees with Managerial appointments and some of the best looking ones go sour. Remember the public clamour for Bryan Gunn and Neil Adams? I accept that the reign of AN has probably run it's course but that doesn't make him a bad Manager. As I said earlier look at Hughton - solid looking appointment, previous success at other Clubs, good start here, bad run of games, hounded out by the fans, went to new found success at Brighton - sound familiar? Unfortunately the ' fans' have decided that he has to go and they will still want him out if he manages to steady the ship and stay in the top 6. Same with some players. The fans don't like Naismith. From what I read about the QPR game he was our best player - listen out for the howls if he is in the team next game. How many times do we hear about the disaster of giving 1 year contract extensions to a 3rd choice full back and a 5th choice CB who never play a game between them and are only there for emergencies. Some people just need something to moan about and won't let a few facts get in the way of their prejudice.
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We lost the Newcastle game due to awful defending....it was ages ago and NOTHINGS changed, we still leak goals nearly every time the opposition attack. So what has the manager done about it, absolutely nothing is the answer. The QPR game is classic, both the goals and the penalty were down to terrible defending and nothing to do with having a man sent off. We see this sort of defending every week, I know you don't, but I'm afraid it's the truth. So yes I'm saying it's down to the manager to sort it out or, ALL our defenders including defensive midfielders are awful and if that's the case, we'll he's had 18 months to deal with it! He has to go before it's too late!
 
1950canary said:
How many times do we hear about the disaster of giving 1 year contract extensions to a 3rd choice full back and a 5th choice CB who never play a game between them and are only there for emergencies. Some people just need something to moan about and won't let a few facts get in the way of their prejudice.
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Sorry to butt in, 1950, and you make several valid points. But giving contract extensions to players like Turner and Whittaker purely masks the total ineptitude of either identifying upgrades, or negotiating to get those upgrades in and over the line by deadline day.
The Club, board, fans and coaching staff have known for the last 3,4, 5 transfer windows that our defence is not fit for purpose (partially addressed at last with the arrival of Klose and Pinto) but failed dismally to do anything about it - blame the manager, scouting system, geography of Norfolk, etc but it's now got us into the brown stuff - with no glimpse of how to get out again!
Surely that is patently obvious, whether you're a Norfolk dweller or not? :emoticon-0112-wonde
 
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ilovedelia said:
We lost the Newcastle game due to awful defending....it was ages ago and NOTHINGS changed, we still leak goals nearly every time the opposition attack. So what has the manager done about it, absolutely nothing is the answer. The QPR game is classic, both the goals and the penalty were down to terrible defending and nothing to do with having a man sent off. We see this sort of defending every week, I know you don't, but I'm afraid it's the truth. So yes I'm saying it's down to the manager to sort it out or, ALL our defenders including defensive midfielders are awful and if that's the case, we'll he's had 18 months to deal with it! He has to go before it's too late!
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Having been at the QPR match, I have to disagree with some of the intepretations Paddy Davitt and others have been making. For me there was real committment from the players but they were limited by being down to 10 men from the second minute. That means they have to work harder and cover more ground for the whole match. Many teams would have buckled under that pressure, but we were still in with a chance until the final whistle and if Jacob's excellent curving shot had been inches lower we could have had an unlikely draw. Naismith has been rubbished on here but he was working over-time throughout and geeing up others and then capped that with an excellent headed goal. I don't know whether AN will stay or go and I'm not even sure what I feel about that. Many of the same people on here dismissed Chris Hughton as 'clueless' time and time again. Well, he's not looking very clueless now after turning around a struggling Brighton side and making them automatic promotion contenders. As for our fans and how they feel, I can only say that those who travelled to QPR were singing from the kick-off to the end, and put QPR fans to shame. Their defiance was magnificent to see in the flesh.
 
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ilovedelia said:
We lost the Newcastle game due to awful defending....it was ages ago and NOTHINGS changed, we still leak goals nearly every time the opposition attack. So what has the manager done about it, absolutely nothing is the answer. The QPR game is classic, both the goals and the penalty were down to terrible defending and nothing to do with having a man sent off. We see this sort of defending every week, I know you don't, but I'm afraid it's the truth. So yes I'm saying it's down to the manager to sort it out or, ALL our defenders including defensive midfielders are awful and if that's the case, we'll he's had 18 months to deal with it! He has to go before it's too late!
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Your justified complaint about awful defending is why I mentioned the Newcastle game especially as, in my opinion, it was that collapse that caused the current defensive panic to set in despite the fact that we won the next 2 games. He bought Pinto and Klose in January and in the summer managed to keep them and Olssen despite interest from elsewhere. At the time that was considered to be a sign of our ambition and was welcomed by most fans. He did say that he was trying to sign another CB but we were in the Championship which made recruitment harder. I have only seen 1 live game this season but saw every game in the previous seasons and during that spell I thought Tettey was our most important player - to the extent that I still feel we would have stayed up had Klose and Tettey not been injured. The fact remains that before the last 4 league games we were in the automatic promotion places so the defensive mistakes were, perhaps, an issue but not a major problem. Having lost the last four games it is now a major problem although in fairness what could any new Manager do about it when the problems are individual mistakes. If a player loses the opponent he is supposed to be marking or misses a tackle then it is hardly the Managers fault and all he can do is drop them but if the replacements do the same then the options are limited until the transfer window opens. I fully accept your point that I have not witnessed games this year but surely it is a fair point to debate as to why a squad can get us to the automatic promotion places before hitting the rocks. Most pundits and most of our fans were saying that we had one of the strongest squads in the league. We still have the same squad so why the collapse? Why are these ' class ' defenders suddenly awful? You say the Manager - I query what the Manager or any new Manager can do when the problem appears to be individual errors and/or loss of confidence.
 
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Cromercanary said:
Sorry to butt in, 1950, and you make several valid points. But giving contract extensions to players like Turner and Whittaker purely masks the total ineptitude of either identifying upgrades, or negotiating to get those upgrades in and over the line by deadline day.
The Club, board, fans and coaching staff have known for the last 3,4, 5 transfer windows that our defence is not fit for purpose (partially addressed at last with the arrival of Klose and Pinto) but failed dismally to do anything about it - blame the manager, scouting system, geography of Norfolk, etc but it's now got us into the brown stuff - with no glimpse of how to get out again!
Surely that is patently obvious, whether you're a Norfolk dweller or not? :emoticon-0112-wonde
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We can argue this all day long but I just cannot see how we could get a so called upgrade. 3rd choice full back, 5th choice CB and 3rd choice GK are dead end positions in a squad only suitable for players at the end of their careers who are happy to turn up for training, keep fit and be available in an emergency. Last season Whittaker was playing quite frequently in the Premiership and was also playing for Scotland. Turner played in the Championship all season. They were already here so apart from wages they cost us nothing. What better are you going to get?
 
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1950canary said:
We can argue this all day long but I just cannot see how we could get a so called upgrade. 3rd choice full back, 5th choice CB and 3rd choice GK are dead end positions in a squad only suitable for players at the end of their careers who are happy to turn up for training, keep fit and be available in an emergency. Last season Whittaker was playing quite frequently in the Premiership and was also playing for Scotland. Turner played in the Championship all season. They were already here so apart from wages they cost us nothing. What better are you going to get?
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I don't think there was any doubt that Whittaker and Turner were retained as cover for injuries and that's they way it has been. Had we been able to get another CB in, Turner would have been loaned out. His presence didn't prevent another CB from coming in and you're quite right about that 1950.
 
1950canary said:
Well said Dave - a nice piece of sense and humanity amongst a sea of sickening vitriolic abuse. Wouldn't it be nice if some of the people on here made a mistake at work and had to face customers and the local press hounding their Manager demanding that they are sacked - then they might understand how AN is feeling at this moment in time. I am back in Norfolk at the moment and the conversations I am hearing are sickening especially as we are talking about a Manager who got us promoted against the odds, nearly kept us up and only a few weeks back had us in the automatic promotion places. I agree that something has gone wrong and a change of Manager is virtually guaranteed but will it be for the better? Who knows who it will be. Hughton has been a success wherever he has been and our fans were delighted when he arrived. They were equally delighted when they hounded him out to work miracles at Brighton. Just goes to prove that any Manager can succeed or fail depending on the circumstances and the expectations. I am sure that the so called fans will get their way and AN will go. I have no doubt that the replacement will please some and disappoint others and those who are disappointed will start another hate campaign as soon as we lose a couple of games. After all we are a mighty Club who should be up in the Premiership by right - yeah right!! I miss Norwich and I miss going to Carrow Road every game but I do not miss a lot of the so called supporters. I wish the Club well and will always support them from afar but I do say to the supporters - be careful what you wish for and that caution also applies to anyone who wants the owners and the Board to go as you never know who you end up with.
Dave - if you are reading this. I am home at the moment because my youngest daughter has moved back to Lincoln to do her Masters at the Uni. She is renting a house in Sincil Bank. Had a quick walk up to the ground - bet it has changed a lot since you last saw it!!
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What a load of tosh. Got us promoted against the odd's, nearly kept us up, what are you talking about ? AN isn't up to the job if he'd only made a mistake or two no one would care, but to continually make mistakes and not learn from them despite numerous chances is not acceptable and if most of us did that at work we'd be sacked. However I think you are right that any criticism of him should be confined to footballing matters, which is pretty much what all posters on here have stuck to, I see no evidence of a hate campaign from posters on this board. If you think he should stay then make that arguement, but don't try and put your inappropriate and unjustified labels on fans and posters that don't agree. Personally I wish AN no ill will, but equally I look forward to his search for a new job. And as for our supporters, it might help if some of our so called supporters saw the potential in the club rather than continually accepting the mediocre.
 
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1950canary said:
I accept that having moved I have only seen 1 match but that type of argument works both ways. AN sees his players in training every day and knows the physical and mental state of his squad but that doesn't stop many on here and elsewhere who only see the players for 90 mins once a fortnight at best - and no more than I do at worst - think they know more about team selection than the Manager.
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That's the whole point of a forum.
 
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ilovedelia said:
We lost the Newcastle game due to awful defending....it was ages ago and NOTHINGS changed, we still leak goals nearly every time the opposition attack. So what has the manager done about it, absolutely nothing is the answer. The QPR game is classic, both the goals and the penalty were down to terrible defending and nothing to do with having a man sent off. We see this sort of defending every week, I know you don't, but I'm afraid it's the truth. So yes I'm saying it's down to the manager to sort it out or, ALL our defenders including defensive midfielders are awful and if that's the case, we'll he's had 18 months to deal with it! He has to go before it's too late!
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We haven't performed well for a whole game all season, even in the games we won against the poorer teams in this league our performances were generally poor. As soon as we started playing average or good teams we fell to pieces.
 
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1950canary said:
We can argue this all day long but I just cannot see how we could get a so called upgrade. 3rd choice full back, 5th choice CB and 3rd choice GK are dead end positions in a squad only suitable for players at the end of their careers who are happy to turn up for training, keep fit and be available in an emergency. Last season Whittaker was playing quite frequently in the Premiership and was also playing for Scotland. Turner played in the Championship all season. They were already here so apart from wages they cost us nothing. What better are you going to get?
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Well they are probably on fairly high wages, so we could of get rid of both of them and get one decent player in their place. Or how about we get rid of our 4th & 5th choice CB's and get a 2nd choice one to play alongside Klose. Hold on I'll put myself in AN mode and buy another midfielder cos that's the only position I know anything about.
 
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1950canary said:
Your justified complaint about awful defending is why I mentioned the Newcastle game especially as, in my opinion, it was that collapse that caused the current defensive panic to set in despite the fact that we won the next 2 games. He bought Pinto and Klose in January and in the summer managed to keep them and Olssen despite interest from elsewhere. At the time that was considered to be a sign of our ambition and was welcomed by most fans. He did say that he was trying to sign another CB but we were in the Championship which made recruitment harder. I have only seen 1 live game this season but saw every game in the previous seasons and during that spell I thought Tettey was our most important player - to the extent that I still feel we would have stayed up had Klose and Tettey not been injured. The fact remains that before the last 4 league games we were in the automatic promotion places so the defensive mistakes were, perhaps, an issue but not a major problem. Having lost the last four games it is now a major problem although in fairness what could any new Manager do about it when the problems are individual mistakes. If a player loses the opponent he is supposed to be marking or misses a tackle then it is hardly the Managers fault and all he can do is drop them but if the replacements do the same then the options are limited until the transfer window opens. I fully accept your point that I have not witnessed games this year but surely it is a fair point to debate as to why a squad can get us to the automatic promotion places before hitting the rocks. Most pundits and most of our fans were saying that we had one of the strongest squads in the league. We still have the same squad so why the collapse? Why are these ' class ' defenders suddenly awful? You say the Manager - I query what the Manager or any new Manager can do when the problem appears to be individual errors and/or loss of confidence.
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Do his job and replace them or stop selecting them!! Its his job to manage in all areas of the football side of the business!!!!!

Simple, we were extremely lucky to win some of those games, struggled like crazy in just about everyone, I think I can only remember one game where we actually looked like a TEAM! Honestly its not been good to watch and it doesn't change, week on week, same tactics same faces, thats why I for one (and I don't think I'm alone) think he's lost it and doesn't have a clue how to solve it

As for Tettey, I'm sorry and I mean it, but, WTF are you talking about. He has been dreadful, the amount of passes that he gives away must number into the 20's every single game, plus he's booked every game, plus he slows the game down when we might have a chance of a break away, passes sideways and backwards. In my opinion as someone who goes to every game he is AWFUL, but, the manager still selects him above others who could contribute more!
 
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