Head Coach Performance

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alcoauth said:
Honestly I think unless we're in immediate danger of being relegated I would give him the rest of the season, and I am no fan of his btw, but the reality of the situation is that Mowbray was overachieving and I think that's obviously to most now, sacking Mowbray has likely cost us a really good run at the playoffs and this fella hasn't shown anything yet to suggest he is capable of doing that. Finish where we finish be it 10th or 15th, if it looks like we've taken a step back (and that looks to be that case right now) then let him go and bring in a new head coach.
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I would agree with this. Beale wouldn't have been my choice and the decision to sack Tony for him doesn't make sense (there is surely a lot more to Tony's departure than we know). But, Beale is here now and the least we can do is let him do his job.

I've always believed that Sunderland supporters are some of the most knowledgeable and welcoming around, but some of the personal abuse Beale has faced (more on other platforms than here) has been disgraceful. The bloke's a football coach, not an axe murderer.
 
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alcoauth said:
Honestly I think unless we're in immediate danger of being relegated I would give him the rest of the season, and I am no fan of his btw, but the reality of the situation is that Mowbray was overachieving and I think that's obviously to most now, sacking Mowbray has likely cost us a really good run at the playoffs and this fella hasn't shown anything yet to suggest he is capable of doing that. Finish where we finish be it 10th or 15th, if it looks like we've taken a step back (and that looks to be that case right now) then let him go and bring in a new head coach.
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I don't think we've got the luxury of letting him finish 15th (although I think we'll be lower unless something changes)
The entire approach adopted by the club is predicated on being seen as a club on the up. It's why we attracted (and kept) players like Clarke, Ballard, Ekwah, Cirkin, Neil etc. and good players on loans from PL clubs.
If we settle for being mid table fodder then all that stops. The players here will want to move on and we won't be able to replace them. We start moving backwards and not forwards.

So I'm getting behind my club by calling for them to rectify a huge mistake that's clearly been made as quickly as possible.


I don't agree with abusing the man or the club, but the longer this goes, the clearer it becomes and the more pig-headed the club becomes in sticking to a decision that hasn't worked, the more justified it will be.
 
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The Exile II said:
I don't think we've got the luxury of letting him finish 15th (although I think we'll be lower unless something changes)
The entire approach adopted by the club is predicated on being seen as a club on the up. It's why we attracted (and kept) players like Clarke, Ballard, Ekwah, Cirkin, Neil etc. and good players on loans from PL clubs.
If we settle for being mid table fodder then all that stops. The players here will want to move on and we won't be able to replace them. We start moving backwards and not forwards.

So I'm getting behind my club by calling for them to rectify a huge mistake that's clearly been made as quickly as possible.
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Replied instead of edited. Duh.
 
alcoauth said:
Honestly I think unless we're in immediate danger of being relegated I would give him the rest of the season, and I am no fan of his btw, but the reality of the situation is that Mowbray was overachieving and I think that's obviously to most now, sacking Mowbray has likely cost us a really good run at the playoffs and this fella hasn't shown anything yet to suggest he is capable of doing that. Finish where we finish be it 10th or 15th, if it looks like we've taken a step back (and that looks to be that case right now) then let him go and bring in a new head coach.
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This is how I feel too. MB has a heck of a lot to do to turn the fans (me included), but he has to be given more than a few games to prove he can do it, or not.
 
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The Exile II said:
I don't think we've got the luxury of letting him finish 15th (although I think we'll be lower unless something changes)
The entire approach adopted by the club is predicated on being seen as a club on the up. It's why we attracted (and kept) players like Clarke, Ballard, Ekwah, Cirkin, Neil etc. and good players on loans from PL clubs.
If we settle for being mid table fodder then all that stops. The players here will want to move on and we won't be able to replace them. We start moving backwards and not forwards.

So I'm getting behind my club by calling for them to rectify a huge mistake that's clearly been made as quickly as possible.


I don't agree with abusing the man or the club, but the longer this goes, the clearer it becomes and the more pig-headed the club becomes in sticking to a decision that hasn't worked, the more justified it will be.
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I have no idea how much he's earning but he got a 2.5 year deal and just managed Rangers, it's safe to say giving him the boot would likely cost in the region of a million pounds, perhaps a bit less, perhaps a bit more. AND THEN any appointments afterwards are not guaranteed success. For this reason I would bet he stays until at least the summer unless, as I said, we're at desperate risk of relegation.
 
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Interesting listening to the Southampton chairman on talk sport talking about Nathan Jones. Loads of similarities to MB. charman say made the appointment for all the right reason Stats etc but says he knew from day one it wouldn’t work. Just don’t fit Fans didnt take to him Really interesting listen
 
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sheepman said:
Interesting listening to the Southampton chairman on talk sport talking about Nathan Jones. Loads of similarities to MB. charman say made the appointment for all the right reason Stats etc but says he knew from day one it wouldn’t work. Just don’t fit Fans didnt take to him Really interesting listen
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Without listening to it, are you okay, decided against typing happy, for MB to be given to the end of the season before there is a review.

The review will obviously include Speakman as he appointed MB.
 
sheepman said:
Interesting listening to the Southampton chairman on talk sport talking about Nathan Jones. Loads of similarities to MB. charman say made the appointment for all the right reason Stats etc but says he knew from day one it wouldn’t work. Just don’t fit Fans didnt take to him Really interesting listen
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And proof that it can happen.
 
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The main problem that Southampton had when they appointed Nathan Jones was that he had been managing a side that played in a very different way to the Southampton side that he took over.

Jones' Luton side were direct and counter-attacking, often not having a lot of possession. Southampton under Ralf Hassenhutl were a side that wanted to dominate possession.

The Southampton owners thought Hassenhuttl was going stale and wanted Jones because they thought he would give them a different dynamic. While a good coach should be able to adapt his game, it appears that that's not what the Southampton board wanted. Looking at the side they had at the time, they weren't really set up to play the kind of football Jones was playing at Luton.

They tried to change things too quickly and are even on record saying things improved when they went back to what the team was used to.

We haven't done that. We've been set up as a possession-based side and, at his previous clubs, Beale has tried to play a more possession-based game. In fact, if you look at analysis of his time at QPR, it's not too different to how we were playing last year.
 
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The Exile II said:
And proof that it can happen.
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There are no guarantees with any managerial appointment and we've seen on many, many occasions a new manager will come in and turn fortunes around instantly before being a complete flop. Martin O'Neil for example. Di Canio. Others are slow burners, who take some time to adapt.
What we don't know is what Beale is like around the building and whether he is respected and trusted by not only the players but KLD and soeakman. None of us know, people are making wild assumptions that the players aren't playing for him etc based on a few interviews and a few on-field gestures. You could question some of his tactics but I'd argue he's lost one of his only creative players - Roberts- and has lost all his left backs. He's got no options in midfield and we all know about the strikers. He tried Neil further forward on Friday and o9 was advanced pressing as well. If it didn't work, why not and what can he done to change it? Is he not allowed that opportunity? Maybe he isn't the right fit but I just feel that he deserves a chance to at least make it work. Cos let's not kid ourselves that a new manager would suddenly make us this barnstorming side with no Roberts, strikers or left back. Just isn't happening. And this narrative that we were this carefree joyful side under Mowbray is also rubbish and being used to punish Beale.
 
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Mackem74 said:
There are no guarantees with any managerial appointment and we've seen on many, many occasions a new manager will come in and turn fortunes around instantly before being a complete flop. Martin O'Neil for example. Di Canio. Others are slow burners, who take some time to adapt.
What we don't know is what Beale is like around the building and whether he is respected and trusted by not only the players but KLD and soeakman. None of us know, people are making wild assumptions that the players aren't playing for him etc based on a few interviews and a few on-field gestures. You could question some of his tactics but I'd argue he's lost one of his only creative players - Roberts- and has lost all his left backs. He's got no options in midfield and we all know about the strikers. He tried Neil further forward on Friday and o9 was advanced pressing as well. If it didn't work, why not and what can he done to change it? Is he not allowed that opportunity? Maybe he isn't the right fit but I just feel that he deserves a chance to at least make it work. Cos let's not kid ourselves that a new manager would suddenly make us this barnstorming side with no Roberts, strikers or left back. Just isn't happening. And this narrative that we were this carefree joyful side under Mowbray is also rubbish and being used to punish Beale.
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Good post marra, need to give mb to the end of the season.
 
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sheepman said:
Interesting listening to the Southampton chairman on talk sport talking about Nathan Jones. Loads of similarities to MB. charman say made the appointment for all the right reason Stats etc but says he knew from day one it wouldn’t work. Just don’t fit Fans didnt take to him Really interesting listen
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He lasted 3 months, 8 games, there and their sacking of him didn't affect future coaches being interested in the role, as has been mentioned for a reason not to sack beale so quick.
 
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Blond Bombshell said:
Without listening to it, are you okay, decided against typing happy, for MB to be given to the end of the season before there is a review.

The review will obviously include Speakman as he appointed MB.
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That's the difficult one.
He'll be given another few games that's for certain. He may surprise and turn it around.
At the end of the season it will be easier more candidates willing to make a move close season.
But judging by the mood of supporters the atmosphere would be awful.
Trying to get someone in now is risky unless we push the boat out and manage to attract someone high profile who is out of work.
There's also the option of Dodd's until the end of the season. Not sure if that's a great choice.
The current regime are obviously going to be the ones making the decision. Just have to hope they have learned something.
I am not a fan of Beale but to be honest Really don't know what would be for the best.
 
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TonyG said:
There’s photoshops of him on hitlers body for christs sake, it’s wrong on many levels.
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No matter what you think of him you must remember he has probably got a wife and kids and other family members. Fancy having to read that trash about your loved one.

it's just not on and other prospective employees must have 2nd thoughts about joining us, some of our fan base are...Disgusting !!!
 
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sheepman said:
Interesting listening to the Southampton chairman on talk sport talking about Nathan Jones. Loads of similarities to MB. charman say made the appointment for all the right reason Stats etc but says he knew from day one it wouldn’t work. Just don’t fit Fans didnt take to him Really interesting listen
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Their fans were calling for Martyn to be sacked, and weren't overly convinced before we played them.
 
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