Head Coach Performance

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Brainy Dose said:
The sound voice of reason.
I'm struggling to remember a time when Sunderland fans,amongst whom I've always been proud to be counted over 60 years, were so vitriolic and personally abusive towards a newly appointed manager so quickly, and also to include our ownership, which has clearly injected renewed hope for a more prosperous future,since the dark days of the recent past.
There are a number of our solid fans,.....passionate,committed fans,...who seem to have an intense agenda against Speakman above all.....for reasons I'm not clear on.....and are clearly trying to use the Beale appointment,given the generally unsatisfactory results since he came in, as a stick to wield against him,and,by inference, the KLD regime in general.
This latter point is the most dangerous imo. I've seen threads elsewhere welcoming a possible change in ownership, but we have to be very careful in what we wish for.
For our part,as fans,we are not to blame for anything that befalls us. We turn up week in,week out,in our numbers to support our club. How could we do anything else,it's ingrained in us,it's our DNA,which we can never lose.
I remember the Roker Roar,and the atmosphere it generated at Roker Park,which,in my view, will never be surpassed. I do think that it was regenerated at the SOL at times during the Reidy days....and including Mag matches...many individual times since.....but I don't see it on a regular basis. I'm not sure if it's the general lack of success over the years,which has bred the continual expectation of failure,but I'm often deflated by the constant grumbling at our home matches.I'm sure visiting teams can sense it and play accordingly. I know people who primarily go to our away matches...letting their season card to a family member/friend....they prefer the away day experience. I've lost count of the number of times over recent years I've taken someone to a home match and to be told afterwards that the atmosphere wasn't what they expected. We hype ourselves up,but we're not that great.
My opinion is that we need to accept that we are a mid-table Championship team, with our sights set on improvement to a higher position, rather than a Premiership team who is not doing very well.
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The team setup and performance generates passion from the crowd, and for the last number of year the team seems to have been setup in a negative way and Beale seems to be taking us more backward. I keep hearing plenty of times that teams are told to attack us early to quieten the crowd, why do we not try to get at the away team fast so getting the crowd up for it. One of my biggest bugbear with the team at this moment is the constant passback from a freekick unless outside of op box. If there was a stat out there showing this, about 90 % of freekicks re passed back with half going to the keeper under pressure
 
Ronsafc said:
I am not anti KLD or the model but what makes you think he will get us to the prem. they bought good players that got us out of div 1, so the last two windows should of seen the next level type player come in to the club but not one of the new signing would be regular starter in promotion aiming teams, only 2 or 3 out of about 15 have looked anywhere near squad level
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I think you've got a point that there are no guarantees in football. That is surely why it is so popular- you can't be certain what's going to happen. Which is why I find it so hard to understand that people can't see that with regard to the performances of, for example, Speakman and Beale.

Despite this, I think KLD will (or rather, can) get us back to the Premier League because there has been steady progression since he came in. We overachieved last season and so this season looks like a disappointment (so far) when it is probably more reflective of our natural, current position. There is an imbalance in the squad currently. We all know we need a CF and holding midfielder. However, we have a squad full of young, talented, and very promising footballers who will mature together and hit their peak at approximately the same time. Some may be sold along the way and new additions will be required to balance the squad out. The peak for many of these players will probably be Premier League standard, so potentially they are probably capable of winning promotion before they hit their peak. When we were promoted, no one expected us to be going for a Premier League return so we're probably not too far off schedule. It's just a matter of patience.
 
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Another thing that i think is annoying is the rumour that Jobe has something in his contract that he should play every game, hope it's not but the amount of games he is playing whilst out of form, mentally tired etc is telling and would make the club look very small time then to top it off the black car bar and getting all the money from the cup game make us look even more a small time club.
 
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My opinions on this are so complex. You'll see how conflicted I am:
  1. I never wanted him. Was very clear immediately he was the wrong fit
  2. I wanted to give him a chance. By all accounts he's a great coach and I trust Speakman.
  3. I now am absolutely 100% certain he won't last. He's dead man walking.
  4. I want him to leave as soon as possible. I feel drained even thinking about Sunderland playing at the moment. And even if its unfair on him, the feeling around the club is more important than that.
  5. BUT I am conflicted about whether we should give him another 2-3 games before we sack him. As like others have said, we look ridiculous and why on earth would another coach join knowing we sack so quickly.
  6. BUT we look ridiculous BECAUSE we have already been ridiculous. I feel like the damage is done, and sacking him won't actually damage any further. And whilst things feel horrendous now, the playoffs genuinely are still very very gettable. So why not move.
 
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Someone said the other day this is similar in feeling to the Parkinson time. I agree. Feels like a head coach who is so far disconnected from the fans and what the club means to us.

To the point I was quite glad on Friday when I got the call for a gig! Parkinson was the last time I felt like that, and the 15 point prem season before that!

said to my parents that his results record is no worse than mowbray’s was at this point in his SAFC career. But at least with Mowbray you could see what he was trying to implement. Up to now, I’ve seen literally nothing to tell me he will improve us. I hope he proves me wrong, but I don’t think he will
 
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marcusblackcat said:
Someone said the other day this is similar in feeling to the Parkinson time. I agree. Feels like a head coach who is so far disconnected from the fans and what the club means to us.

To the point I was quite glad on Friday when I got the call for a gig! Parkinson was the last time I felt like that, and the 15 point prem season before that!

said to my parents that his results record is no worse than mowbray’s was at this point in his SAFC career. But at least with Mowbray you could see what he was trying to implement. Up to now, I’ve seen literally nothing to tell me he will improve us. I hope he proves me wrong, but I don’t think he will
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See, I don't get this at all. How is he anymore disconnected than, say, Dick Advocaat or Gus Poyet? Or even Tony Mowbray, a man who prior to coming here was inextricably linked to a club who see themselves as one of our closest rivals? Surely he is even more disconnected than Beale?
 
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It's pointless keeping him at this point. Even if he turns it around and we go on a winning run he is only ever one defeat away from all the vitriol returning. It's disappointing but it's true.
 
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Southern A said:
My opinions on this are so complex. You'll see how conflicted I am:
  1. I never wanted him. Was very clear immediately he was the wrong fit
  2. I wanted to give him a chance. By all accounts he's a great coach and I trust Speakman.
  3. I now am absolutely 100% certain he won't last. He's dead man walking.
  4. I want him to leave as soon as possible. I feel drained even thinking about Sunderland playing at the moment. And even if its unfair on him, the feeling around the club is more important than that.
  5. BUT I am conflicted about whether we should give him another 2-3 games before we sack him. As like others have said, we look ridiculous and why on earth would another coach join knowing we sack so quickly.
  6. BUT we look ridiculous BECAUSE we have already been ridiculous. I feel like the damage is done, and sacking him won't actually damage any further. And whilst things feel horrendous now, the playoffs genuinely are still very very gettable. So why not move.
Click to expand...
Good post. Agree with everything other than trusting Speakman. That’s hard to do after this appointment and the poor summer transfer window. The striker situation has been a joke for a number of months now too. 3 weeks into this window and absolutely nothing, despite us being desperate in a couple of positions for quality and experience.
 
LD19SAFC said:
Good post. Agree with everything other than trusting Speakman. That’s hard to do after this appointment and the poor summer transfer window. The striker situation has been a joke for a number of months now too. 3 weeks into this window and absolutely nothing, despite us being desperate in a couple of positions for quality and experience.
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I nearly put "trust(ed) Speakman". Because before this appointment I did. Now I'm on the fence.

Not going to judge this transfer window until February. Agree the summer wasn't good enough.
 
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Brainy Dose said:
The sound voice of reason.
I'm struggling to remember a time when Sunderland fans,amongst whom I've always been proud to be counted over 60 years, were so vitriolic and personally abusive towards a newly appointed manager so quickly, and also to include our ownership, which has clearly injected renewed hope for a more prosperous future,since the dark days of the recent past.
There are a number of our solid fans,.....passionate,committed fans,...who seem to have an intense agenda against Speakman above all.....for reasons I'm not clear on.....and are clearly trying to use the Beale appointment,given the generally unsatisfactory results since he came in, as a stick to wield against him,and,by inference, the KLD regime in general.
This latter point is the most dangerous imo. I've seen threads elsewhere welcoming a possible change in ownership, but we have to be very careful in what we wish for.
For our part,as fans,we are not to blame for anything that befalls us. We turn up week in,week out,in our numbers to support our club. How could we do anything else,it's ingrained in us,it's our DNA,which we can never lose.
I remember the Roker Roar,and the atmosphere it generated at Roker Park,which,in my view, will never be surpassed. I do think that it was regenerated at the SOL at times during the Reidy days....and including Mag matches...many individual times since.....but I don't see it on a regular basis. I'm not sure if it's the general lack of success over the years,which has bred the continual expectation of failure,but I'm often deflated by the constant grumbling at our home matches.I'm sure visiting teams can sense it and play accordingly. I know people who primarily go to our away matches...letting their season card to a family member/friend....they prefer the away day experience. I've lost count of the number of times over recent years I've taken someone to a home match and to be told afterwards that the atmosphere wasn't what they expected. We hype ourselves up,but we're not that great.
My opinion is that we need to accept that we are a mid-table Championship team, with our sights set on improvement to a higher position, rather than a Premiership team who is not doing very well.
Click to expand...
People have become quick to criticise, even when they don't really have a full grasp of the facts. Questioning 'authority' or the establishment has been made into a virtue, but people don't stop to think why someone is an authority on a particular subject. They just feel the need to shoot people down.
 
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Aye - we could win the next 5 but if we lost the 6th people will be onto him.

Its why I think he's got to go. Once a Head Coach / Manager has lost the fans to this extent its impossible to win them back over. His only chance in hindsight was to win the first few games on the trot, which was unlikely.

One thing I will add is that I think this is massively, massively unfair on Beale. And I do have a lot of sympathy in him. But life isn't fair. And the club is bigger and more important than that.
 
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He could’ve helped himself by having a go against the Mags. Instead, we made it ridiculously easy for them showing too much respect. The game plan was rotten - we didn’t lay a glove. Played ridiculously narrow despite Trippier and Burn playing full back. Both had been struggling for form. He sat on his arse for most of the game and didn’t bother changing it until the 85th minute. Easiest game they’ll play all season. Makes it more frustrating when you see Bristol City having a right go and beating West Ham. Middlesbrough giving Villa a good game then beating Chelsea a few days later. We were weak, it was almost as if we’d accepted defeat before a ball was kicked.
 
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smithy in nl said:
Rooney was sacked after 15 games at Birmingham, does everyone now think Birmingham are a shocking club?
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NO they have appointed a well respected manager who has steadied the ship which was badly needed after sacking Eustace who was doing an ok job to accommodate the high profile Rooney who proved to be an absolute disaster . We probably need the same kind of action if we aspire to reach the playoffs which is still possible though unlikely if we continue with the football we are playing at the moment- either Beale needs to change or we need to change Beale as most Rangers fans would tell you.
 
I will expand upon me having lots of sympathy for Beale.

He was not ready for this job, the way he wasn’t ready for Rangers.

There wasn’t a chance in hell he would turn it down if offered it. But he really needed to manage a smaller club with lower expectations first, to prove he can be a number 1.

Instead he’s been given a battle he had no chance of winning, and this will likely now be his last ever job as a number 1.
 
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