Goodbye Jose and......

[I Sorry I Ruined The Party]

ok then, you mention contract extensions being bad time and time again. No wonder I think that.

You think that because you don't read. I've never said contract extensions are bad. I've actually said several times exactly what I said in that last post-- that some are good, some are bad, and it depends on the player's projected future values.

I think we can all agree that younger, healthier players, with potential to improve, who are important members of the team, and who are highly in demand are the best extension candidates. Older, injury-prone, likely to fade, squad or backups, and who don't have other options are poor extension candidates.

The players we have are somewhere in the middle. We should be discussing what attributes they have that are positive and which that are negative or risky. And whether in the end the benefits outweigh the cost.

But instead we're all like, trying to explain how football contracts work to each other when I think we all know how they work. I'm not sure why, but let's all try and stop it.

 

[I Sorry I Ruined The Party]

Puel has said that Fonte is a professional. I have no doubt that he will settle down if nothing comes of these shenanigans. He may let us down by leaving, but he won't let us down by being sulky if he stays.

I expect something like Schneiderlin where he was both sulky AND professional. Remember that first goal, how he seemed unhappy? But he still scored it.

Schneiderlin seemed to get over it pretty quickly... but he was young, and always knew he could leave after the season. Fonte likely won't get another chance so the bitter feelings could linger for an uncomfortable amount of time. Not worried about his effort on the pitch, but feel like Davis should remain captain even if Fonte signs.

 

[saintlyhero]

There is still no firm evidence of Fonte sulking
This forum is like a knitting circle but with no end product

 

[Beddy]

None of us are going to be Satisfied until the Window closes. You can almost see the next thread to come just before the next window opens, assuming Fonte does not leave in this one. Will Fonte go this time? Or some such headline.
As for the contracts footballers sign, they do actually mean something. They mean a player is under obligation to see his contract out unless the club decides to sell. If an approach is made for a player the club have a right to dismiss out of hand any approach until that is the player is in roughly his last 6 months of his contract. So in other words it means both the club and the player have the decision to make as to their future.
I still feel that Saints let players go too easily and until we stop that we will always be what I call a selling club.That disappoints me but I will still support them no matter what. However if we really want to progress both in Europe and the EPL we are somehow going to have to lose that Tag and bite the bullet and say No.
Other teams do it so can we.....................

 

[latviandream]

There is still no firm evidence of Fonte sulking
This forum is like a knitting circle but with no end product

With most of the knitting circle worrying that Saints may have lots of possession, but may also have no end product.... 14 days to go....

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

With most of the knitting circle worrying that Saints may have lots of possession, but may also have no end product.... 14 days to go....

We need a really good jumper

 

[ImpSaint]

No, we wouldn't.

If Player X refuses to ever play for Saints ever again, then we lose more money if we have to pay him for only 1 year than if we have to pay them for another 4 years. So the more they are owed, the more badly we need to sell.

And if that player refuses to play ever again what power does the club have? They can terminate his contract for breach. Or they can pay his wages for doing nothing. Who wins there?

 

[ImpSaint]

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[fatletiss]

You think that because you don't read. I've never said contract extensions are bad. I've actually said several times exactly what I said in that last post-- that some are good, some are bad, and it depends on the player's projected future values.

I think we can all agree that younger, healthier players, with potential to improve, who are important members of the team, and who are highly in demand are the best extension candidates. Older, injury-prone, likely to fade, squad or backups, and who don't have other options are poor extension candidates.

The players we have are somewhere in the middle. We should be discussing what attributes they have that are positive and which that are negative or risky. And whether in the end the benefits outweigh the cost.

But instead we're all like, trying to explain how football contracts work to each other when I think we all know how they work. I'm not sure why, but let's all try and stop it.

I don't read? That's not a personal attack is it? Thought that was my domain



Maybe I don't read because your posts are always so long that by the time I've reached the end I've forgotten the beginning.

 

[fatletiss]

You think that because you don't read. I've never said contract extensions are bad. I've actually said several times exactly what I said in that last post-- that some are good, some are bad, and it depends on the player's projected future values.

I think we can all agree that younger, healthier players, with potential to improve, who are important members of the team, and who are highly in demand are the best extension candidates. Older, injury-prone, likely to fade, squad or backups, and who don't have other options are poor extension candidates.

The players we have are somewhere in the middle. We should be discussing what attributes they have that are positive and which that are negative or risky. And whether in the end the benefits outweigh the cost.

But instead we're all like, trying to explain how football contracts work to each other when I think we all know how they work. I'm not sure why, but let's all try and stop it.

Can I just ask you for clarification on this seasons contract extensions please... Do you think it is good extending Davis, Bertrand, Tadic, Forster, JWP and Long?

I seem to recall at the time you questioning the validity in doing so. Forgive me if I mis understood, but that is certainly how it came across to me and several people who replied to your posts at the time. This may be why I made the point I did.

 

[Beddy]

And if that player refuses to play ever again what power does the club have? They can terminate his contract for breach. Or they can pay his wages for doing nothing. Who wins there?

If a player throws his dummy out of the pram and breaches his own contract by refusing to play. The club have several options they can fine him on a weekly basis for his breach. Also they can terminate his contract but keep his registration with the Authorities which means he cannot actually get another professional club until his original contract ends.
I seem to remember years ago a player threw a wobbly with one of the clubs over a transfer deal that didn't go through. Eventually his contract was terminated. However the club kept his Registration so he could not sign for any professional club. The player went through the courts but lost his case. A deal was eventually sorted out through the players union but the player did not play for the other club originally involved. I do believe the time frame I am talking about was before we had transfer windows and the like.
As you say though, no one wins in this kind of situation. If a player signs a contract though he should expect to complete it. He should also be made aware that he will not be allowed to leave until the club totally agree with the move.
I sometimes get very frustrated with Saints for letting players go as some of their valuations do not seem to be putting teams off trying to woo our players. This I think is a chink in Saints Armour............

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I expect something like Schneiderlin where he was both sulky AND professional. Remember that first goal, how he seemed unhappy? But he still scored it.

Schneiderlin seemed to get over it pretty quickly... but he was young, and always knew he could leave after the season. Fonte likely won't get another chance so the bitter feelings could linger for an uncomfortable amount of time. Not worried about his effort on the pitch, but feel like Davis should remain captain even if Fonte signs.

Ooof! Stick the knife in, why don't you! Make him stay AND strip him of the captaincy???

Man, you're dark!!!

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

I think there are only two outcomes here....he leaves or he stays and carries on as usual. I do not see Fonte striking, sulking or not giving his best.

 

[ImpSaint]

If a player throws his dummy out of the pram and breaches his own contract by refusing to play. The club have several options they can fine him on a weekly basis for his breach. Also they can terminate his contract but keep his registration with the Authorities which means he cannot actually get another professional club until his original contract ends.
I seem to remember years ago a player threw a wobbly with one of the clubs over a transfer deal that didn't go through. Eventually his contract was terminated. However the club kept his Registration so he could not sign for any professional club. The player went through the courts but lost his case. A deal was eventually sorted out through the players union but the player did not play for the other club originally involved. I do believe the time frame I am talking about was before we had transfer windows and the like.
As you say though, no one wins in this kind of situation. If a player signs a contract though he should expect to complete it. He should also be made aware that he will not be allowed to leave until the club totally agree with the move.
I sometimes get very frustrated with Saints for letting players go as some of their valuations do not seem to be putting teams off trying to woo our players. This I think is a chink in Saints Armour............

I suspect that was Van Hooijdonk. The reality is though if a player says publically "I will never play for Saints again" I would want him out, not rotting. I would want him away from the club with the best deal possible even if it wasn't for as much money as I would want...........a la twatbeard c*** gnomeface of Nivealand.

However I don't think Fonte would ever stoop to that level and would soldier on in a grump.

 

[fatletiss]

I think there are only two outcomes here....he leaves or he stays and carries on as usual. I do not see Fonte striking, sulking or not giving his best.

I agree Fran, but these are footballers we're talking about...

 

[nice teeth]

And if that player refuses to play ever again what power does the club have? They can terminate his contract for breach. Or they can pay his wages for doing nothing. Who wins there?

but this is the exception, not the rule.
How many players actually go on strike, refuse to play and would then follow through with that threat?
Those that do, do untold damage to their reputations as professionals and whilst there will always be clubs that are willing to buy them, they narrow their future horizons by doing so.
What we have to do, as has already been mentioned is balance selling players with keeping them.
Saints HAVE successfully kept some players for an additional season, as noted by RK, for the benefit of both the club and the player (in the case of Morgan going to ManUtd instead of spuds).
But the club have a business model and that model has seen a continuous climb from the blink of oblivion to successive European qualifications.
I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt and a bit of support for the fact they know what they are doing.

 

[ImpSaint]

but this is the exception, not the rule.
Saints HAVE successfully kept some players for an additional season, as noted by RK, for the benefit of both the club and the player (in the case of Morgan going to ManUtd instead of spuds).
But the club have a business model and that model has seen a continuous climb from the blink of oblivion to successive European qualifications.
I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt and a bit of support for the fact they know what they are doing.

This is spin. Schneiderlin didn't leave because no-one put a big enough bid in for him. Wanyama didn't leave because no-one put a bid in for him. We are led to believe that half of these players were already on gentlemens agreements from Nicola begging them for one more season anyway.

Simple as that. If Spurs had bid £25m instead of £10m spider would have been gone and the same with any other of the "we held firm" spins. It isn't reality.

 

[Beddy]

but this is the exception, not the rule.
How many players actually go on strike, refuse to play and would then follow through with that threat?
Those that do, do untold damage to their reputations as professionals and whilst there will always be clubs that are willing to buy them, they narrow their future horizons by doing so.
What we have to do, as has already been mentioned is balance selling players with keeping them.
Saints HAVE successfully kept some players for an additional season, as noted by RK, for the benefit of both the club and the player (in the case of Morgan going to ManUtd instead of spuds).
But the club have a business model and that model has seen a continuous climb from the blink of oblivion to successive European qualifications.
I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt and a bit of support for the fact they know what they are doing.

I mostly agree with what you are saying. However the club have to remember us fans too. We pay good money to watch our favourite team which includes our favourite players. This usually means we have got used to reasonable performances with decent players. Losing two or three of those players each season, do upset the balance of the side. Not to mention what it does to the way we view the team.
Saints simply cannot continue to lose players and replace them each window, our luck will run out at some point. Also the fans are already getting very disillusioned as to what the club are doing. The hard core will accept it but the floaters will not (the new possible fans) These fans are the future of the club and need to be recruited and encouraged! Not discouraged with our current programme of getting rid of our best players............My opinion is that Saints has probably got maybe one more season left before some those departures really bite..........I will add if we are lucky.

 

[Puck]

If a player actually goes on strike the club don't have to pay him. Pretty sure it happened not that long ago when Tevez refused to play for Man City and went back to Argentina.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

I mostly agree with what you are saying. However the club have to remember us fans too. We pay good money to watch our favourite team which includes our favourite players. This usually means we have got used to reasonable performances with decent players. Losing two or three of those players each season, do upset the balance of the side. Not to mention what it does to the way we view the team.
Saints simply cannot continue to lose players and replace them each window, our luck will run out at some point. Also the fans are already getting very disillusioned as to what the club are doing. The hard core will accept it but the floaters will not (the new possible fans) These fans are the future of the club and need to be recruited and encouraged! Not discouraged with our current programme of getting rid of our best players............My opinion is that Saints has probably got maybe one more season left before some those departures really bite..........I will add if we are lucky.

I'm not disillusioned with the club selling players....I'm not sure what else they can do but offer the top wages we can reasonably afford. That makes me more disillusioned with footballers and football in general. I would have hoped we'd bring in a couple more players...but, even there, I suspect we are looking for a higher standard of player and that brings us into competition with bigger, richer clubs. So not disillusioned....more pissed off.