On CNN,"Goal line technology granted licences." Well it can work for us as well as against us but I have to say that it's about time.
Goal line technology.
- Thread starter The Mighty Thor
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I'm going to wait to see how it's implemented. It needs to be done, but it also needs to be done properly and effectively.
I wonder whether there'll be some other technology farther out in the field to detect offsides etc. Could you elaborate on your statement PNP please.
We've seen these technologies used effectively in other sports and I like the idea in theory, but we've yet to see a practical application of it in this sport.
If it's shown to be quick, accurate and consistently so, then it's a welcome addition.
I see what you mean now because all I can see is a camera or two on the line and I fail to see how it can be anything else. So will play stop at the request of the referee or the teams to see if it was a goal or not? Interesting.
In tennis with Haweye, it takes about 10 seconds for the replay to show on the screen in slow motion to show if the ball hit the line (or went out).
Is that just to add to the drama! so what happens with this? does the ref have to stop play like in rugby for a few seconds and gets told by mic if the ball crossed the line?
Is that just to add to the drama! so what happens with this? does the ref have to stop play like in rugby for a few seconds and gets told by mic if the ball crossed the line?
My impression is that the technology relies on sensors within the ball
may be wrong
goal line technology is nothing like what would be needed for offside, the two issues aren't even remotely similar
offsides would need video replays and we're a long way away from that ATM
may be wrong
goal line technology is nothing like what would be needed for offside, the two issues aren't even remotely similar
offsides would need video replays and we're a long way away from that ATM
Indeed, about bloody time!
I'm hoping it's going to be similar to how rugby utilises their video technology but only for goals. I think red cards/ fouls/ penalty shouts etc still need to be under the decision of the ref and his assistants, otherwise it may take the "human" factor out of the game and I wouldn't want that, plus it'd cause way too many stoppages.
I'm hoping it's going to be similar to how rugby utilises their video technology but only for goals. I think red cards/ fouls/ penalty shouts etc still need to be under the decision of the ref and his assistants, otherwise it may take the "human" factor out of the game and I wouldn't want that, plus it'd cause way too many stoppages.
HI SOs, from what I know the key is the sensors, not video technology, but doubtless we'll all know soon enough, it it ever happens.
But should its use only be decided by the referee or should others challenge like the manager or captain etc?
they can't challenge now,so i don't think anything should change,the ref makes the decision,it's to help him not give the teams a chance to argue
The way I understand it is that there are two systems, one with sensors in the ball and on the goalposts and one with a system of cameras around the ground pointed specifically at each goal. Either way the sensors/cameras are used and then a signal is sent to the referee by means of a special 'wristwatch-like device' that tells him if the ball crossed the line or not. So there is no system of challenges.
I work for what may be the best robotics place. I think we could get a prototype of a fail safe, instant system in place for a couple of hundred thousand dollars or so that would detect when goals were scored and also provide instant offside detection. Though it would be a little easier if you stuck a chip in the uniforms for the offside. You wouldn't need a chip in the ball to detect when it had crossed the line. It's an easy problem for computer vision to crack--a lot easier than detecting tennis balls and lines, which is a technology that already exists. There's no reason not to do this, I think, just because any system should be able to provide instant detection. I don't really see why it should take 10 seconds, though I guess it could.
The basic idea is that you'd train a vision system to detect accurately and track the ball based on its color and shape. Since it's mostly against a very different background and the system can interpolate when it isn't, this is pretty easy. Then all you need to have is a working GPS system, and the GPS coordinates of the goal line, and the system should reliably detect when the ball has crossed the line. I believe that's the basic idea of Hawkeye as well.
The basic idea is that you'd train a vision system to detect accurately and track the ball based on its color and shape. Since it's mostly against a very different background and the system can interpolate when it isn't, this is pretty easy. Then all you need to have is a working GPS system, and the GPS coordinates of the goal line, and the system should reliably detect when the ball has crossed the line. I believe that's the basic idea of Hawkeye as well.
As an expansion on the previous post (I've been thinking about the article I read and remembered a bit more of it now) if anyone is interested...
The camera system would be an adaptation of Hawkeye, positioning six cameras over each goal that triangulate the position of the ball on the pitch. Should the entire ball cross the line, a signal is instantly sent to the referee’s watch, allowing him to make the correct call. The signal is also encrypted, so that sneaky buggers shouldn't be able to create a false signal.
The other system (called Goal Ref or something like that) uses a chip in the ball and low level microwave sensors in the frame of the goal to decide whether the ball has crossed the line. Like the camera system it sends an encrypted signal to the ref's watch in less than a second.
Regarding the suggestion of chips in player's kits for offside, the problem there is that you'd have to chip every ball playing part of each player - boots, head and chest etc. - for that to be truly effective. That's majorly impractical, not to mention the fact that boot designers would have to get in on the deal in all likelihood and there's always the possibility of a chip getting damaged in what is a high-wear environment. The solution for offsides at the moment IMO would be to have a video review (in the same way rugby does) but in my opinion that would slow the game down too much and detract from flow and atmosphere, which are two of the things that make football such an enjoyable sport to watch. While the tension of a video review does fit in in a rugby game (and I'd like to point out that I do enjoy watching that too, but for different reasons) I don't think it would suit football. Just my opinion.
Another thing that I think we could take from rugby as well is to mike up the officials so that we can hear what they're saying to each other and the players. Might make one or two players think twice about abusing the ref as well, because the evidence would be broadcast on tv for all to hear.
The camera system would be an adaptation of Hawkeye, positioning six cameras over each goal that triangulate the position of the ball on the pitch. Should the entire ball cross the line, a signal is instantly sent to the referee’s watch, allowing him to make the correct call. The signal is also encrypted, so that sneaky buggers shouldn't be able to create a false signal.
The other system (called Goal Ref or something like that) uses a chip in the ball and low level microwave sensors in the frame of the goal to decide whether the ball has crossed the line. Like the camera system it sends an encrypted signal to the ref's watch in less than a second.
Regarding the suggestion of chips in player's kits for offside, the problem there is that you'd have to chip every ball playing part of each player - boots, head and chest etc. - for that to be truly effective. That's majorly impractical, not to mention the fact that boot designers would have to get in on the deal in all likelihood and there's always the possibility of a chip getting damaged in what is a high-wear environment. The solution for offsides at the moment IMO would be to have a video review (in the same way rugby does) but in my opinion that would slow the game down too much and detract from flow and atmosphere, which are two of the things that make football such an enjoyable sport to watch. While the tension of a video review does fit in in a rugby game (and I'd like to point out that I do enjoy watching that too, but for different reasons) I don't think it would suit football. Just my opinion.
Another thing that I think we could take from rugby as well is to mike up the officials so that we can hear what they're saying to each other and the players. Might make one or two players think twice about abusing the ref as well, because the evidence would be broadcast on tv for all to hear.
I admire your optimism RWB but I think we're decades away from having a fail-safe chip-centred offside detector. The variables involved are incredible.
I'm sure you know a thousand times more about robotics than I do, but here's my prediction, we won't see any such system operating in the Prem this side of 2025.
As Hudd says, the only realistic way, that I know of anyway, is some form of video replay, and I just don't see even that happening in the Prem for at least 10 years, and probably a lot, lot longer than that.
Even getting a relatively simple task like goal line technology (compared to the massively complex subject of offside) sorted has taken decades, and we're still some way from it being implemented in domestic football.
I'm sure you know a thousand times more about robotics than I do, but here's my prediction, we won't see any such system operating in the Prem this side of 2025.
As Hudd says, the only realistic way, that I know of anyway, is some form of video replay, and I just don't see even that happening in the Prem for at least 10 years, and probably a lot, lot longer than that.
Even getting a relatively simple task like goal line technology (compared to the massively complex subject of offside) sorted has taken decades, and we're still some way from it being implemented in domestic football.
There won't be replays shown to the crowd like that as they've got it planned, instead the ref will be told directly and I think I read one of the systems will tell the ref through his watch for some reason.