Match Day Thread General Match Thread
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"We don't get seduced by the outcome".
Lol
Refs literally do this the whole time. VAR has made it worse as almost every strong tackle if watched in slow motion will resemble GBH.
Son and Brennan both got red cards based entirely on the outcome of their tackle, not their input or intent.
Dermot is full of freshly evacuated manure.
Romero got a straight red against Man Utd because Casemiro rolled eight times after their collision, which overruled the fact that literally every replay showed that it was Casemiro fouling Romero
They absolutely get seduced by the outcome. If they didn't, we wouldn't have had 25+ years of certain players athletically hurling themselves through the air before some light rhythmic gymnastics when hitting the grass
For example...
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Like I said yesterday, Gallagher on course to be our worst ever signing.
Never needed him, offered absolutely **** all so far, not won a league game since he joined, joint highest earner, Chelsea reject… A proper Johan Lange special that one.
They were abysmal. Gallagher is a Chelsea mole, there is no other explanation for the fact that he jogs around aimlessly for 90mins.
But this is a case of stats telling less than half the story. Our midfield has been poor for ages, but that hasn't always mattered. We reached the CL final with Winks and Sissoko for crying out loud.
The bigger problem is what's in front of them. Winks and Sissoko coped because there wasn't a defence in the world stupid enough to commit extra men forward and leave the likes of Kane, Son, Dele and Eriksen unattended. And those who did were picked off, as City found out in the QF that year.
Look at our forward line now. They pose absolutely zero threat, collectively or individually. Defences are more than happy not to bother doubling up on them because they know that even in a one on one situation, chances are Solanke hits the keeper, Muani falls over and Richarlison hits the bloke selling hot dogs outside the ground. They are so unbelievably easy to defend against, and as a result we are constantly outnumbered in midfield even when we play 3 there.
This is one reason why Kudus and Kulusevski have been so badly missed. They are players who will be doubled up on, which means the opponent has to choose between keeping all their defenders back and reducing pressure on us, or dragging one of their midfielders deep which opens up space in the channels.
Our problems begin from the front. We are never in control of games because our midfield is constantly swamped, and it doesn't make an iota of difference who plays there. Ange, Frank, Tudor and now De Zerbi have tried every possible combination and nothing changes, because the real problem isn't in the midfield, it's in attack.
And that's why stats can be misleading.
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It’s a nonsense statement at the end there. If the keeper isn’t there…but he was? The push in those circumstances was dangerous - Kinsky is crouched to collect the ball, Romero is running and close enough that if he gets shoved with the momentum there’s not really a way he can fall in a way that doesn’t risk hitting Kinsky in the head.
At the time the contact is made Kinsky almost has the ball in hand anyway, so it’s his downright cynical. Brobbey is more than within his rights to try and play the ball - Kinsky could spill it or whatever after all - but instead he plays the man (Romero has got his body in the way well) with very little chance of a positive outcome (imagine if he pushes Romero away from Kinsky, who then spills the ball, and Brobbey has a tap in - it gets called back for the push anyway). It would be harsh to say he’s trying to cause injury but it’s a classic case of leaving one on the CB and it’s had what’s looking like a really bad outcome.
Shoving someone into a goalpost would be viewed differently to pushing them into empty space and with the amount of focus on concussions in the game at the moment I’m surprised at those comments. Let alone the fact that it smacks of refs managing the occasion more than applying the rules, which has been a sore point for Spurs ever since that Chelsea game in the Leicester season.
I think there’s a good argument that the striker should have been off after that incident - I thought the yellow for the Porro incident was a bit harsh but he probably should have got one for the earlier hit on Romero. But those incidents aside, the RKM ‘handball’ and the Udogie last man foul were the really egregious ones. The pen on RKM was one of those that I thought would stand with the on field call but if he’d called it no pen initially I wouldn’t have expected it to have been overturned. You see those go both ways.
The frustration comes for fans because we are truly in the **** and just need something to break our way, but all the relatively minor incidents (and many of the big ones) just keep going against us - both the calls that are definitely wrong, and the more marginal ones like the pen.
So several of you know more about football and the rules of the game than an ex premier league referee
This ref conspiracy and woe is me posting is so boring.
This ref conspiracy and woe is me posting is so boring.
The idea that the PL ref’s have got their heads together and said “let’s do Spurs over” is ludicrous, of course.
The idea that refs are intimidated by Spurs’ opponents and therefore show some conscious or unconscious bias is equally ludicrous.
Spurs getting a lot of bad decisions and no rub of the green is a more arguable point - but as the standard of officiating is generally poor making it a lottery for all teams, fans of every club can have that argument.
We will go down because we have been utter ****e over the season. I too don't buy into the officiating, although they are appalling in their lack of consistency.
This team needs to grow a pair and earn their obscene weekly wage. Sick and tired of the lame excuses. Massive game Saturday, "To Dare is the Do" etc..
This team needs to grow a pair and earn their obscene weekly wage. Sick and tired of the lame excuses. Massive game Saturday, "To Dare is the Do" etc..
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The issue is that not once this season have we been on the positive end of this lottery. It’s rare that the reason you lose a game is down to a single referee decision but it can change how a game goes.
I don’t think anyone truly believes there is some kind of plot from the PGMOL to do spurs over but there are instances this season where we are clearly reffed differently. Whether this is to do with things like Neville giving it the oooh when Romero dares breathe on someone (as I’m sure would have happened yesterday if Romero had elbowed someone) or carragher bangs on about how much richarlison goes down to easily and these build up in refs minds throughout a season.
If things really do ‘even themselves out’ then karma owes us quite a lot in the next 6 games!
I’m not going to try and sit here and claim a conspiracy. I do think the standard of refereeing has dropped, there’s a lot of inconsistency and the way VAR is used is sub optimal in many ways and only adds to the confusion. A lot of that has gone against Spurs this season. I can accept that as bad luck, as frustrating as it is. I’m sure every team can point to a string of bad decisions against them.
However on Gallagher I think it’s absolutely fair to question his views on this incident in light of his comments following the (admittedly far more visceral, but similar in principle) injury to Angel Gomes after Son’s challenge caused him to impact Aurier. He supported the red card being shown to Sonny for endangering the player, whereas in this case he seems to be downplaying the incident despite the fact that one player has had to go off injured as a result, and the other has blood pouring from a head injury.
There's also the issue with people trotting out the old "never attribute to malice etc etc" line, but there's an issue with that argument: it omits that arrogance is a factor
A large part of why VAR is so shambolic in the Premier League is that PGMOL have an arrogance about how their officials can never, ever be wrong (which Dermot Gallagher has happily demonstrated for us) so there has long been the suspicion that PGMOL places as much emphasis on VAR being used as a tool for covering their officials' backsides as the intended use for, you know, helping the officials do their job better
The refcam from the NLD also underlines this arrogance, as the prick of a ref had a clear view on Gabriel's dive and on the complete lack of Arsenal players appealing for a foul or a card, yet insisted that he saw a foul (even using the phrase "It's a foul, end of" to our players) so there was no need to check if he had been hoodwinked when VAR exists for that exact purpose
There's definitely an issue with refs thinking they're as much a part of the game as the 22 players around them, be it that referee autobiography where they said "Oh, there's all here to see me" ahead of a big match at Old Trafford, or the revelation in Mark Halsey's book that Graeme Poll referred to himself as Polly (pronounced Pole-ey, just to clear that up ahead of time...) in front of other officials which failed to understand that the reason Ryan Giggs was called "Giggsy" is his teammates and fans called him that out of affection, not because he walked into training one day referring to himself as Giggsy and expected everyone to go along with it
Just a small note:
IFAB Laws of the Game:
Penalty overturned: If a penalty is awarded but overturned, play resumes with a dropped ball to the defending goalkeeper if it was overturned inside the box.
[which is what happened, but]
Exceptions:
Not that there's any point in debating this with KH.
I don't. So I checked it out something that happened.
IFAB Laws of the Game:
Penalty overturned: If a penalty is awarded but overturned, play resumes with a dropped ball to the defending goalkeeper if it was overturned inside the box.
[which is what happened, but]
Exceptions:
- If the VAR review shows the ball went out of play, it resumes with the appropriate corner kick, goal kick, or throw-in.
Not that there's any point in debating this with KH.
I’m not saying Spurs don’t get decisions go against them but they also get decisions go their way and there isn’t a conspiracy
That’s Leeds safe then and you have to think Forest will beat Burnley this weekend so just leaves us and West Ham.
At least we have a chance to go above them as they don’t play till Monday.
Hopefully with Leeds safe, beat Chelsea in the cup and they’ll have a cup final to prepare for before they play us
At least we have a chance to go above them as they don’t play till Monday.
Hopefully with Leeds safe, beat Chelsea in the cup and they’ll have a cup final to prepare for before they play us
Yep, this is last chance saloon I think against Brighton. Lose this and it’s over.