Off Topic General Election Special

[Steven Toast]

It's at times like this I'm glad I watched The Thick of It. Stewart Pearson, lead Tory spin doctor, nails it about the Conservatives.

"You know, I've spent the last ten years detoxifying this party. It's been a bit like renovating an old, old house. Oh, you can take out a sexist beam here, a callous window there, replace the odd...homophobic roof-tile, but after a while you begin to realise that this renovation is doomed. Because the foundation is built on what I can only describe as a solid bed of ****s."

 

[Edelman]

I know this might be a bit radical but these women could actually work a bit longer like us men have to - it's a shame when they cry out for equality that they moan so much when they get it - equality works both ways

I think a retirement age equal for both is correct.
It should have been raised more gradually though and not a short space of time !

 

[John Ex Aberdeen now E.R.]

UK population 2010 - 62.76 million - 2019 67.53 million - no wonder the infrastructure cant cope

It's a fair point and it is like parachuting the population of 20 new City's the size of Hull into the country, then having to fund them.

I guess of the 5 million extra people some will pay tax, but probably there will be a fair percentage drawing welfare also.

 

[AlRawdah]

It's a fair point and it is like parachuting the population of 20 new City's the size of Hull into the country, then having to fund them.

I guess of the 5 million extra people some will pay tax, but probably there will be a fair percentage drawing welfare also.

EU immigrants are net contributors to the economy as a collective John. Lots of studies have shown this.

 

[Idi Amin]

I think what people are saying is we have not built the infrastructure to cope with the increase.....I too agree they are not contributors after reading up on it.

I genuinely dont know. Has our infrastructure increased in line? Housing, transport, hospitals, etc.

 

[Charon]

EU immigrants are net contributors to the economy as a collective John. Lots of studies have shown this.

But that misses the point completely - the point was about infrastructure - more housing needed, better transport links more housing - more hospitals more doctors more schools more teachers - Between 1997 and 2010 another 4 million on the population - that's an increase of 9 million in 22 years ; it's no use arguing that immigration is a positive thing because they pay their taxes and spend their cash - there has to be investment to deal with it - in the years between 1997 and 2010 there were hardly any new council houses being built and whilst there has been a large increase since then it's still not enough - we can't keep on increasing the population like we have been because their will be a social catastrophe - so when idiots like Corbyn talk about opening up the borders where do you think they are going to live, where will they go to school, where will they go to hospital - they won't have a job because Corbyn is going to tax business to death - too many people - fact

 

[balkan tiger]

EU immigrants are net contributors to the economy as a collective John. Lots of studies have shown this.

I still find that hard to believe.

 

[originalminority]

A mixture of universal credit, an end to EU free movement and an Australian points system should at least give us a stable and controlled immigration system where we can at last plan what infrastructure the country needs.

 

[AlRawdah]

But that misses the point completely - the point was about infrastructure - more housing needed, better transport links more housing - more hospitals more doctors more schools more teachers - Between 1997 and 2010 another 4 million on the population - that's an increase of 9 million in 22 years ; it's no use arguing that immigration is a positive thing because they pay their taxes and spend their cash - there has to be investment to deal with it - in the years between 1997 and 2010 there were hardly any new council houses being built and whilst there has been a large increase since then it's still not enough - we can't keep on increasing the population like we have been because their will be a social catastrophe - so when idiots like Corbyn talk about opening up the borders where do you think they are going to live, where will they go to school, where will they go to hospital - they won't have a job because Corbyn is going to tax business to death - too many people - fact

Christ. Is it still 2010?

 

[dennisboothstash]

Interestingly if we want to catch cod it's has to be caught in Norwegian waters !
Fishing is also a minuate percentage of our economy .
The loss of big financial institutions dwarfs it's importance !

Agreed, but fishing is very emotive for an island nation so is something people will get excited about for good or bad.

 

[dennisboothstash]

UK population 2010 - 62.76 million - 2019 67.53 million - no wonder the infrastructure cant cope

That can’t be right
Farage said it had gone up by 8 million, not less than 5?

 

[brownbagtiger]

I still find that hard to believe.

Genuinely, why is that? Do you not trust the reports? Or is it because their conclusion contradicts your gut feelings? Most immigrants are young and working which means paying taxes and less use of the nhs compared to the whole population.

It’s bloody hard to get benefits these days - the myths of waves of immigrants arriving and being handed houses and cars and a four figure monthly income are just that, myths. Every time the screw turns, vulnerable people in our society are losing their lifelines. I know personally disabled people who were previously assessed for benefits being told they no longer qualify- their disability did not get change but the assessment criteria did. The distress and anguish this causes is immense.

It’s unfortunately human nature that a small % of people will ride any kind of system for what they can get. 3-5% is the usual figure for benefit fraud on audit reports. Personally, I would rather make sure the people who need assistance get enough to live in dignity and accept that maybe 1 in 20 is pulling a fast one. I’m more concerned about the other 19 to be honest.

But there is a significant number of folk that seem to live in a permanent fear of “other people getting something I don't” which swings the balance from vulnerable folk living with dignity to treating all claimants with suspicion and keeping them in fear of losing their income and roof over their heads.

 

[Quill]

It's at times like this I'm glad I watched The Thick of It. Stewart Pearson, lead Tory spin doctor, nails it about the Conservatives.

"You know, I've spent the last ten years detoxifying this party. It's been a bit like renovating an old, old house. Oh, you can take out a sexist beam here, a callous window there, replace the odd...homophobic roof-tile, but after a while you begin to realise that this renovation is doomed. Because the foundation is built on what I can only describe as a solid bed of ****s."

I yearn for a return of The Thick of It.

But the reality is that it never actually left. The cast just changed.

 

[Charon]

That can’t be right
Farage said it had gone up by 8 million, not less than 5?

He actually said since 1997 and he was fact checked by the BBC as being correct

 

[dennisboothstash]

He actually said since 1997 and he was fact checked by the BBC as being correct

Ah ok
I thought he was talking about during this Tory govt

 

[balkan tiger]

Genuinely, why is that? Do you not trust the reports? Or is it because their conclusion contradicts your gut feelings? Most immigrants are young and working which means paying taxes and less use of the nhs compared to the whole population.

It’s bloody hard to get benefits these days - the myths of waves of immigrants arriving and being handed houses and cars and a four figure monthly income are just that, myths. Every time the screw turns, vulnerable people in our society are losing their lifelines. I know personally disabled people who were previously assessed for benefits being told they no longer qualify- their disability did not get change but the assessment criteria did. The distress and anguish this causes is immense.

It’s unfortunately human nature that a small % of people will ride any kind of system for what they can get. 3-5% is the usual figure for benefit fraud on audit reports. Personally, I would rather make sure the people who need assistance get enough to live in dignity and accept that maybe 1 in 20 is pulling a fast one. I’m more concerned about the other 19 to be honest.

But there is a significant number of folk that seem to live in a permanent fear of “other people getting something I don't” which swings the balance from vulnerable folk living with dignity to treating all claimants with suspicion and keeping them in fear of losing their income and roof over their heads.

Just a gut feeling based on life experiences. I know some people can get high paid jobs and pay loads of tax, but for many their options for work are at the lower end of the pay scale and consequently pay less tax.

Then you come to the out goings, health, schooling, sick pay, pensions, and hundreds other things, I would be amazed if anyone pays in more than their costs over a life time.

 

[Amin Arrears]

Just a gut feeling based on life experiences. I know some people can get high paid jobs and pay loads of tax, but for many their options for work are at the lower end of the pay scale and consequently pay less tax.

Then you come to the out goings, health, schooling, sick pay, pensions, and hundreds other things, I would be amazed if anyone pays in more than their costs over a life time.

Some people will pay more tax in a year than they cost to the state in their entire life time.

 

[brownbagtiger]

Just a gut feeling based on life experiences. I know some people can get high paid jobs and pay loads of tax, but for many their options for work are at the lower end of the pay scale and consequently pay less tax.

Then you come to the out goings, health, schooling, sick pay, pensions, and hundreds other things, I would be amazed if anyone pays in more than their costs over a life time.

As a general concept though, are you going to discount reports because your gut feeling and life experiences say otherwise? Or are you going to think that maybe the report authors have considered other aspects too?

Heres one from earlier this year: https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

 

[Trumpton Tiger.]

I think a retirement age equal for both is correct.
It should have been raised more gradually though and not a short space of time !

If equality works both ways explain when and how a bloke can give birth.

 

[pierredelafranchesca]

But that misses the point completely - the point was about infrastructure - more housing needed, better transport links more housing - more hospitals more doctors more schools more teachers - Between 1997 and 2010 another 4 million on the population - that's an increase of 9 million in 22 years ; it's no use arguing that immigration is a positive thing because they pay their taxes and spend their cash - there has to be investment to deal with it - in the years between 1997 and 2010 there were hardly any new council houses being built and whilst there has been a large increase since then it's still not enough - we can't keep on increasing the population like we have been because their will be a social catastrophe - so when idiots like Corbyn talk about opening up the borders where do you think they are going to live, where will they go to school, where will they go to hospital - they won't have a job because Corbyn is going to tax business to death - too many people - fact

We have an ageing population with a larger proportion of our population around and above retirement age than ever before. We need people of a working age to be paying taxes to support the services which support our country, without the 3.6m odd EU migrants we'd have an even bigger shortfall in taxes (they contribute c8bn more than they take out) to support our current population. Let's also remember that whilst EU migrants make up only 5% of our population, they make up c10% of our doctors, and c8% of our nurses and midwifes. They are literally supporting the NHS.