Gaston and the alternatives

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Together as 1

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Dec 10, 2011
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Having read the recent Saints v Reading match thread, it seems opinion is divided on Gaston Ramirez. Mostly the debate seems to surround his overall contribution to the side, in relation to the money we spent. (forgive me if I'm wide of the mark here!)

I thought it might be worth offering some perspective, by comparing how other clubs spent their money in the summer transfer window. http://www.soccernews.com/soccer-transfers/english-premier-league-transfers/ (appreciate this link includes January transfer window signings)

Quick summary of players who play in a comparable position who transferred in the summer show;

Ramirez 15million (seems slightly more than I thought we'd spent)
Lukas Podolski 13 Million
Victor Moses 11.3 million
Oscar 32 million
Stephen Pienaar 5.75 million
Kevin Miralles 7.6 million
Joe Allen 19 million
Fabio Borini 14 million
Javi Garcia 20 million
Scott Sinclair 7.8 million
Charlie Adam 5 million
Gylfi Sigurdsson 10 million
Matt Jarvis 13.5 million
Michu 2.5 million (bargain of the season?)
Adam Johnson 12.5 million

Not sure on the accuracy of the figures quoted , but if we are to look at players that were realistic signings for us in the summer, we are left with Matt Jarvis, Michu, possibly Miralles and at a push Adam Johnson (title winner to a newly promoted side very unlikely I know!).

With this information do we think Gaston Ramirez was a good signing? (I think he was and think he offers more than either Jarvis or Johnson)
 
I don't get why people bring up his price when talking about selection, it's completely irrelevant except for comparing transfers retrospectively. But, he's certainly been no worse than Adam Johnson or Fabio Borini.
 
Mr. Nice said:
I don't get why people bring up his price when talking about selection, it's completely irrelevant except for comparing transfers retrospectively. But, he's certainly been no worse than Adam Johnson or Fabio Borini.
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Correct. In any case, the figure that went round the press was £11.8m.
 
Ramirez is a good player and, if his finishing was improved, we wouldn't be talking about him like this. He has the requisite skills and I'm still hopeful that Mauricio and the coaches can improve him. Hard to talk about the others as they play for different teams with different styles. He is young (and therefore has a good sell on value) and we had to pay near the top end to get him here.

P.s. Nice that he went up to Nigel and shook his hand after the game.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
Ramirez is a good player and, if his finishing was improved, we wouldn't be talking about him like this. He has the requisite skills and I'm still hopeful that Mauricio and the coaches can improve him. Hard to talk about the others as they play for different teams with different styles. He is young (and therefore has a good sell on value) and we had to pay near the top end to get him here.

P.s. Nice that he went up to Nigel and shook his hand after the game.
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Completely agree with all your points.

Thought the transfer fee comparison might spark a bit of interesting debate, particularly Liverpool's recent poor forays into the transfer market.
 
I said when Ramirez signed that he was an ego that felt he was bigger than the team.

The amount I've seen him try and do fancy flicks is just stupid now. Would never have him in my starting team.

My fave team at the moment is the one that played yesterday but Lallana instead of Ramirez
 
Nigel Adkins - A Saint! said:
I said when Ramirez signed that he was an ego that felt he was bigger than the team.

The amount I've seen him try and do fancy flicks is just stupid now. Would never have him in my starting team.

My fave team at the moment is the one that played yesterday but Lallana instead of Ramirez
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Yes he has a ego......
 
Ramirez may be confident in his own ability, but haven't seen anything that makes me think that he isn't one of the boys. If anything, he looks like he's in his own little world and a bit shy. Perhaps others know better if they've met him.
 
I think he will be a massive player for us next season. He is still young and it takes time to settle in a new country. Ronaldo wasn't an instant success at United for instance.
 
lamballana said:
I think he will be a massive player for us next season. He is still young and it takes time to settle in a new country. Ronaldo wasn't an instant success at United for instance.
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And Drogba as well. He had a very slow start with Chelsea and look how well he did for them!
 
I think there's a few more people you could say have an "ego" before you get to Gaston.

No surprise that the comments are coming from who they are, you can change a name but not a persona. (RLGB)

Lallana is just as guilty for trying tricks and flicks when they are not needed. He was good when he came on yesterday.

His fancy flick to put aq Saints player into the box yesterday was quality mind...

I still think a few people are writing him off waaaayyy too early.
 
He has made valuable contributions this season.
Out of our attacking/creative players only Lambert has offered a high level of consistency this season.

Personally I think it's great that we have good competition for places and its a compliment to the level Puncheon has improved to that he is challenging Ramirez for starts.
 
I think we need to get over the "fancy tricks" things. No one on the team tries more fancy tricks that result in nothing than Adam Lallana. Puncheon is a pretty close second in terms of losing the ball on the dribble taking on defenders.

The difference of course is that sometimes Lallana's and Puncheon's moves pay off and it results in a goal for them or a goal created. That hasn't been happening so much for Ramirez. So to me it's not the amount of times he loses the ball trying to create, it's the failure of end product when he does do something well.

To that end, I think it's because players do stupid things when receiving Ramirez's passes. There's been so many times when Ramirez has played a good ball and the player who gets the pass opts to dribble or pull it back or pass when they have an opportunity to shoot. He's also been unlucky-- if Rodriguez scored instead of hitting the crossbar the last game we wouldn't be so harsh on Ramirez.

And I think most of the above just comes down to Ramirez and the rest of the forwards not being in sync. He's making passes when they aren't quite looking or that are a half yard off from where they expect it. I also think that accounts for some of the bad dribbling-- he is expecting players to be somewhere for a pass and they aren't so he has to hold the ball. Ramirez actually works pretty hard on his defense and on the pressing game. He just doesn't look like it because of the way he moves.

If this all sounds familiar, it's because it is. I think Ramirez plays a similar style to Guly. I'd actually be interested in seeing those two paired together although we probably can't afford to do so right now. At any rate, the worst case scenario for Ramirez is that he is a talented footballer who doesn't fit in with our side enough to start but who is useful off the bench. Basically the Premier League version of Guly. So I don't see any compelling reason to unload him.

The other major issue with Ramirez right now is that he doesn't appear to be fit. I think that is because he is still recovering from injury. But if he's a second-half sub then maybe it doesn't matter anyway.

The question is whether we can avoid the worst-case Guly-type scenario by finding a way to integrate him into the side. That's going to depend somewhat on our tactics and also on Ramirez to make some alterations to his game. It never really worked out for Guly. Ramirez still has a chance. I also think that if Saints move up into the top 6-8 teams will sit back more and his ability to work in tight space and create little moments of genius (even if it results in giveaways at other times) will be more useful.

As far as alternatives go... well, I think every team regrets overlooking Michu. But on the other hand, Michu doesn't fit in at Saints either. He doesn't seem to like playing defense much so not sure if he would go for all the hard work pressing. Michu can play a clever pass, but I think he looks to score first. If anything Michu would be taking Jay Rodriguez's role, and I'm very happy with Jay Rodriguez.
 
saintlyhero said:
He has made valuable contributions this season.
Out of our attacking/creative players only Lambert has offered a high level of consistency this season.

Personally I think it's great that we have good competition for places and its a compliment to the level Puncheon has improved to that he is challenging Ramirez for starts.
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Wait a second I am blind. Ignore that. I thought you said higher after Lambert lol.
 
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