Game Over For Ole
- Thread starter Treble
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You guys are starting to sound like Arsenal fans at the end of Wenger's tenure.
One set of fans seeing the problem is the manager and his selections and tactics, the others being deluded beyond reason and making excuses up for why the manager cannot help the issue. Difference is Wenger had won Arsenal multiple trophies as manager and Ole has done **** all so really not seeing the reason for the delusion.
Some of the drivel i've read on here. So its ultimately the managers fault when the team performs poorly, but at the same time the manager cannot be blamed for individual player errors? You dont see that as contradictory in any way? The manager buys the players, the manager trains the players, the manager picks the players. So its the managers fault and SHOULD be, not just a "aw shucks thats the way it goes, he's so hard done by" sort of way, in a "He done picked the wrong guy, get rid of him" sort of way.
The argument of "Well they aint gonna sack him so why keep moaning about it" is completely ******ed because
a) That doesnt mean you should just be content with your team putting in ****ty performances
and
b) Why aren't they going to sack him? If they aint, that means they are willing to put up with mediocrity and that is also reason for fans to complain.
United's squad is on par with Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City imo. Squad depth wise i'd argue you are even better than Liverpool.
The main difference between those sides and United is that the other 3 sides have top class managers.
You could do with a world class DM, for sure. But you have in your squad Ronaldo, Cavani, Bruno, Pogba, Verane, Maguire and many other great players who have proven, with the right management, they can compete at the very top level of world football.
Stick Conte in Ole's place and you would be guaranteed to challenge all the way for the PL title. imo.
EDIT: I should also add, that yes you are only 2 points behind us. But bear in mind that we have played Liverpool away, Arsenal away, Tottenham away and City at home in our first 7 games. Yes The North Londoners dont look great right now, but they are big derbies, away from home and both teams are underperforming.
Liverpool have played Chelsea and City, City have played us and Liverpool. United havent played any real difficult games yet, and are already dropping behind.
Obviously its the PL and anything can happen, but Chelsea's next 4 games are against Brentford, Norwich, Newcastle and Burnley.......yours are Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs and City....how many points behind us do you think you will be after that?
One set of fans seeing the problem is the manager and his selections and tactics, the others being deluded beyond reason and making excuses up for why the manager cannot help the issue. Difference is Wenger had won Arsenal multiple trophies as manager and Ole has done **** all so really not seeing the reason for the delusion.
Some of the drivel i've read on here. So its ultimately the managers fault when the team performs poorly, but at the same time the manager cannot be blamed for individual player errors? You dont see that as contradictory in any way? The manager buys the players, the manager trains the players, the manager picks the players. So its the managers fault and SHOULD be, not just a "aw shucks thats the way it goes, he's so hard done by" sort of way, in a "He done picked the wrong guy, get rid of him" sort of way.
The argument of "Well they aint gonna sack him so why keep moaning about it" is completely ******ed because
a) That doesnt mean you should just be content with your team putting in ****ty performances
and
b) Why aren't they going to sack him? If they aint, that means they are willing to put up with mediocrity and that is also reason for fans to complain.
United's squad is on par with Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City imo. Squad depth wise i'd argue you are even better than Liverpool.
The main difference between those sides and United is that the other 3 sides have top class managers.
You could do with a world class DM, for sure. But you have in your squad Ronaldo, Cavani, Bruno, Pogba, Verane, Maguire and many other great players who have proven, with the right management, they can compete at the very top level of world football.
Stick Conte in Ole's place and you would be guaranteed to challenge all the way for the PL title. imo.
EDIT: I should also add, that yes you are only 2 points behind us. But bear in mind that we have played Liverpool away, Arsenal away, Tottenham away and City at home in our first 7 games. Yes The North Londoners dont look great right now, but they are big derbies, away from home and both teams are underperforming.
Liverpool have played Chelsea and City, City have played us and Liverpool. United havent played any real difficult games yet, and are already dropping behind.
Obviously its the PL and anything can happen, but Chelsea's next 4 games are against Brentford, Norwich, Newcastle and Burnley.......yours are Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs and City....how many points behind us do you think you will be after that?
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Agree with pretty much all of that.
Not sure about Conte though. Not convinced of his style of football.
I'd have Poch tbh.
I actually think Poch would probably suit you better too, I only used Conte because he is an example of a manager who is available, has PL experience and wins trophies wherever he goes.
Conte would do an amazing job with this squad. I’d pick him over Poch for that reason because he has been there and done that. And now, he doesn’t need to rebuild because the team is already there. I won’t even mind him p!ssing off few egos in the team.
Right now, I personally don’t care for style of football. Who are we to even bring that up at this juncture? It isn’t as though we have an identity right now beyond been guaranteed to be inconsistent. I’d take a consistent 1-0 team over the sht that we currently get served up.
Even if we magically take 10 points from the next four games, I am absolutely certain that we will continue to lose points to mid table teams. It really is depressing knowing that we may not have a squad this good for a long while with Pogba out next year and Ronaldo a year older.
Van Gaal too for that matterMourinho was picked for exactly that reason. And the rest is history
Our manager recruitment has been littered with no brainers and people who could not possibly fail.
And, significantly imo, unemployed. As was Solskjaer.
All United have done, bar Moyes, is employ someone who happened to be available.
When maybe a bit of thought should have been put in as to why they were unemployed.
(this is not hindsight, I said this at the time, every time. And was proven right every time)
To be fair, there was always more probability that you would be right.
In hindsight only JM was a possible one as he was the only one still in high demand. But then he was said to be unsuitable umpteenth times at the time of Fergie going. There was always a reason why this or that manager was unsuitable.
it cannot be chance that since Fergie left we’ve not even come close to challenging for the title.
I remember saying 'no good will come of this' when van Gaal was touted as our manager.
And saviour, by the likes of UIR, who was obsessed by his record. The problem with his record was it was long distant and over a decade since he'd done anything and he was patently over the hill.
I did kind of hope that Mourinho had found his home, the job he'd always wanted, but there was no doubt that there was a good reason he was unemployed and it didn't take long to revert to type.
So many on here (PL forum) predicted it would happen and he just couldn't help himself. Tragic really.
Ole was at his level when he was given the caretaker manager job, managing in Norway.
Said at the time it was a mistake giving him the job full time and I stand by it now, taking no satisfaction in being right.
All they had to do was wait till the end of that season, and then have a think about recruitment. That's all!
The clue was in the title; caretaker. Was never anything more.
During that time the likes of Klopp, Pochettino, Pep, Tuchel, Nagleseman, Allegri even Ancelotti, have been employed elsewhere while we just **** about making massive mistakes.
And saviour, by the likes of UIR, who was obsessed by his record. The problem with his record was it was long distant and over a decade since he'd done anything and he was patently over the hill.
I did kind of hope that Mourinho had found his home, the job he'd always wanted, but there was no doubt that there was a good reason he was unemployed and it didn't take long to revert to type.
So many on here (PL forum) predicted it would happen and he just couldn't help himself. Tragic really.
Ole was at his level when he was given the caretaker manager job, managing in Norway.
Said at the time it was a mistake giving him the job full time and I stand by it now, taking no satisfaction in being right.
All they had to do was wait till the end of that season, and then have a think about recruitment. That's all!
The clue was in the title; caretaker. Was never anything more.
During that time the likes of Klopp, Pochettino, Pep, Tuchel, Nagleseman, Allegri even Ancelotti, have been employed elsewhere while we just **** about making massive mistakes.
As good as Pep and Klopp are there's no way they clean up English Football over the last 3/4 years if United had a good manager and recruitment strategy in that period.
They need to pull their finger out fast because Newcastle are coming.
Sure. But without trying to rewrite history, let me remember the time solskjaer was permanently appointed.
The old memory may fail me but I’m sure you’ll all correct me if I’m wrong. At the time of his appointment we were desperately in the ****. Mourinho had left a shambles and a team low in morale. He came and things started stabilising. He won most (all?) of the first 12 consecutive matches he was in charge. In the middle of that period there were clamours for him to be appointed permanently. Why wait? Why not give the team the stability it deserved? Every pundit (yes the same ones who nowadays said he was promoted beyond his ability) was saying that United had accidentally chanced upon the right manager. There was huge pressure on Woodward (who I had absolutely no regard for as people here know). After match 12/ certainly after the PSG match when he beat Tuchel unexpectedly in Paris, almost everyone including the ex United players who had despaired about LVG and Mourinho asked what was the point of waiting. He was appointed without anyone batting an eyelid at the time. All the pundits raised no doubts at all and in fact applauded the decision.
what was the reason for that appointment? He had passed the pre employment test which few clubs could do: a twelve match run asa caretaker Of course things didn’t turn out well after that. I remember a phrase from an article at the time: “Why would you not employ a candidate who passed a tough test of 12 matches and instead go for an untested one as United manager albeit one with good credentials (like Poch)?
That’s my recollection at the time. I am not saying you didn’t criticise the appointment at the time but most people including those connected to the club thought it was a good appointment.
I think the point is that there were plenty who were very apprehensive about giving him the permanent job at a time when there was no need to do so. Why not wait until the end of the season at least? The reason given was that it would give him time to line up transfers before the window opened. Which in the end turned out to be utter bollocks.
Now the thing is, even IF it was just a number of pragmatic (rather than emotional) fans saying it, even IF it was the media and ex-players happy with it, they do NOT run the club. And for all the reasons I've mentioned above, the board and Woodward are paid good money to make good judgements. They should not have appointed anyone (even if it wasn't Ole) after 12 games, midway through a season when there was absolutely no need to do so. In the end the season fizzled out and we actually went on a dip. Had they waited until the end they would've seen that and made a more informed and considered decision.