the Derby and Southampton deals only came after ours was ****ed up though and they were using MSD for them not FPP we don't know if they would have talked to Derby and Southampton if ours didnt get ****ed up
FPP to take full control
- Thread starter Whiteleas Wanderer
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Donald introduced the 'new owners' to Ross ...
... the owner obviously thought it was a done deal.
So did Fuhrman and so did I.
Because they don't want to spend 100/200/300 million pounds on a high risk venture with no guarantee of any financial gain over the long term and a high likelihood of losses on a large scale if it goes belly up.
They were interested in taking on a distressed asset and took Donald's word about the financial shape we were in. They then found it not to be the case and then tried to negotiate on price, at which point Donald made it clear there would be little flexibility on price if they wanted to take the whole club. After further negotiation they then settled on providing a loan with the well publicised terms and conditions. Playing the longer game in the hope that positions will change and a full takeover could open up in the future.
I am choosing to ignore the Southampton loan because it bears little relation to what happened last August and Southampton are a million miles from where we are right now.
I don't buy for one minute the idea of Donald getting too excited and letting his mouth go too early.
The presence of FPP at the match makes me feel there was something much bigger than the loan close to being completed and regardless of what has happened since my mind isn't going to be changed by the goings on elsewhere.
S
sad-eyed prophet
Guest
It must be the case that this was a deal to acquire the club......Smug and Bob....both of whom I believe are passing on genuine info......have confirmed this is what was happening. Something happened to postpone the deal and lead to the loan deal,and I'm certain that was not the intention at the outset.They even turned up to a game ffs!
It's my belief that the deal was dependent on promotion and the loan was put in place to assist in that objective,if required,when we lost to Charlton,thus allowing more time to achieve the objective,and to make sure it didn't fail through lack of funds,such loan to be deducted from the purchase price as and when the deal was finally concluded.In the meantime,it's my belief that Donald was not bound to complete the deal to sell to FPP if another offer came in which he found more attractive,provided the terms of the repayment of the loan were met before any such sale could take place.
The Southampton thing has confused it,but I don't think Kitten is right. I think this is an alternative,because they are assuming their deal with us will not go through and they will get their money back from us when Donald completes the sale to someone else.
Donald,for his part,has been ****ed by us losing to Charlton, and now the virus, and is not willing to wait for at least another year to sell to FPP, when promotion might,or might not be, achieved and so is preparing to sell to someone else who can complete soonest.
I've said this before on here,but,pick holes in that and put me back on track,if you can.Nothing else makes any sense to me.
It's my belief that the deal was dependent on promotion and the loan was put in place to assist in that objective,if required,when we lost to Charlton,thus allowing more time to achieve the objective,and to make sure it didn't fail through lack of funds,such loan to be deducted from the purchase price as and when the deal was finally concluded.In the meantime,it's my belief that Donald was not bound to complete the deal to sell to FPP if another offer came in which he found more attractive,provided the terms of the repayment of the loan were met before any such sale could take place.
The Southampton thing has confused it,but I don't think Kitten is right. I think this is an alternative,because they are assuming their deal with us will not go through and they will get their money back from us when Donald completes the sale to someone else.
Donald,for his part,has been ****ed by us losing to Charlton, and now the virus, and is not willing to wait for at least another year to sell to FPP, when promotion might,or might not be, achieved and so is preparing to sell to someone else who can complete soonest.
I've said this before on here,but,pick holes in that and put me back on track,if you can.Nothing else makes any sense to me.
It was 100% a takeover, which was very close to being done. The loan being so heavily weighted in FPP's favour tells you all you need to know about whose idea that was. That's all true, but in a way none of it matters now because no one has any idea what their plans are now. Did Donald losing the favour of the fans change things? Did the lack of promotion change things? Either way, sadly at the minute they don't seem to be in the picture and if it's not going to be them we need to make sure that donald sells to someone who won't be a disaster for the club
It's a pity they didn't respond to the Echo's open letter, even just a couple of lines to say they were still in the frame or not. I'm not suggesting they read the Echo but if someone could have made them aware of it and the general malaise at the club, after all the fanbase is /would be their customers.
And he also said it was a takeover and he didn't know if they wanted to keep him on.
I think it's very telling that Southampton have been invested in under almost the same terms as us. I also think it's an alternative @sad-eyed prophet, I don't disagree with you, but I reckon they've seen how risky football is and don't fancy being the mugs on the hook when things go wrong a la Short. Lerner et al and I don't think that was the fault of Donald or Sunderland, I think that was their choice once they did their homework.
Instead they have this great deal design that allows them to speculate on a short-medium term bet that the club in question will increase in value above the value they have negotiated for the shares they can convert. It is a great deal for them and allows them to walk away and/or bet on other horses at the same time, which they can't do if they're in charge.
Apart from all the signs pointing to it, I just thought Donald stating on the BBC in December - at a point where he would still have assumed they were the long term answer - that they didn't make a bid for the majority of shares in the club was an extraordinary thing to do if it was not true.
I mean it would completely annihilate his relationship with them to do that publicly, and in fact after signing an NDA recently I would say that is an incredibly risky legal statement if it's not true. As much as I think he's a bit ****, he's not so dumb as to burn that bridge at a point where it was his golden ticket.
Instead they have this great deal design that allows them to speculate on a short-medium term bet that the club in question will increase in value above the value they have negotiated for the shares they can convert. It is a great deal for them and allows them to walk away and/or bet on other horses at the same time, which they can't do if they're in charge.
Apart from all the signs pointing to it, I just thought Donald stating on the BBC in December - at a point where he would still have assumed they were the long term answer - that they didn't make a bid for the majority of shares in the club was an extraordinary thing to do if it was not true.
I mean it would completely annihilate his relationship with them to do that publicly, and in fact after signing an NDA recently I would say that is an incredibly risky legal statement if it's not true. As much as I think he's a bit ****, he's not so dumb as to burn that bridge at a point where it was his golden ticket.
Yeah, I know they will 100% be aware of the letter, they're keeping a close tab on things at Sunderland. But they could easily give a slight indication even if they, understandably, didn't want to tell all, just enough to know whether it is still a possibility in the future. Currently the decision around whether to protest etc is very difficult because we don't know who is waiting in the wings to buy us . They would be a great option, but there might equally be a dreadful option hovering, so we need to be a bit careful about demanding Donald goes!
Bang on this. I'm completely torn. It seems like FPP are at best a long term possibility, but not coming along any time soon, if ever and we can't hang on for them indefinitely. It looks like Campbell is dodgy based on that Falkirk stuff posted last week, and the mythical Saudis that Donald is using to drum up a price? Probably don't even exist.
There's also the public perception of calling for an owner to leave after 2 years, and whether that is off-putting to potential new owners. It's all very well wanting someone with thick skin, but we don't want to give credence to the bollocks pedaled by Charlie that SAFC fans are impossible to please.
Catch 22.
I've certainly never heard anything about any Saudi group. That's not to say they weren't a thing like, I imagine they'd probably be fairly discreet, but the other two (fpp and Campbell) seem like two absolute extremes! I'm not sure the public perception will matter too much, I expect most potential owners will realise how bad the last two have been. Assuming they are confident they could do better (which they must be if they want to bid) I don't think they'll worry too much about the fans not wanting them
as I see it, the people that are involved with Southampton are minus one of the original three. I know that one of the original 3, I don't know which one, was up for it more than the others. He watched STID and he felt an affinity, a community feeling similar to what he was brought up with. So I am still hopeful that one of the billionaires is waiting in the wings. Knowing my luck, though we will end up with Campbell, keep Donald on and give Methven a massive pay off for his shares
It contradicts nothing. I am not guessing. The deal was as good as done. But it didn’t get done.
What's your opinion on why it didn't get done Bob ?
I'm not guessing either - your source was not as close as possible to the deal if they don't know why it fell over. You didn't say they were that close to it back in November last year either, when you staunchly defended Donald and told us he wasn't blocking a deal.
Again, the fact they 'had a deal' does not rule out that the deal could well have been the loan, does it?
Sorry KM but you are guessing unless you have a source who was even closer to the deal.
From the outside it looks as if this is the way MSD wanted a deal however we weren't dealing with MSD, we were dealing with FPP. Who's to sat that Dell liked the way that the FPP loan was structured and decided that is how he wanted to get into football? Could also explain why Furhman left MSD as he wanted it done differently.
Again, these are just speculation/guesses no different to yours.
Yeah all fair, I mean I disagree because we have all heard one source closer to the deal say publicly - under legal obligation not to lie - that they didn't make a bid, but they're just opinions and I understand why people don't want to believe it.
What I am saying is a fact is that Bob has never before claimed to have a source this close to the deal and characterised the person feeding him info as working at another PE house in California... he said that he doesn't even know why the deal fell down, so his source is not as close as possible, and at best is in a 'he said she said' debate with Donald. As I said, the 'deal' could equally have referred to the convertible loan, which is what makes most sense to me.
Like I said, we're all free to believe who or what we want, but IMO there are enormous signals that they have a modus operandi and we fit in with that. I always take the ITK claims with a pinch of salt, even before they start to exaggerate how close their sources are... I think that's a fair stance, maybe you give them more credence. I think that's equally fair.
I'm not expecting you to agree with me btw. I don't tell people they're 100% wrong about this unless I can back it up, I might say I find it unlikely or difficult to believe, but ultimately they are my opinions.
There was a lot of strange things happening around the time FPP were heavily interested.
Max power was openly talking about new owners, so was jack Ross. Also the mainstream media were referring to them as our new owners.
To be honest I don't have the slightest clue what happened, but for all of that hysteria to happen over a loan is pretty strange.
But I also get your points that suggest they weren't as serious as some suggested.
Until we are told the truth, we will never know. And with Donald a proven liar, and FPP staying quite, we may be waiting a very long time.
S
sad-eyed prophet
Guest
It must have been promotion mate. At the time it was expected,we all expected it,and I believe it was a condition on which the deal being finalised depended. Everyone jumped the gun,it didn't happen,so the loan was advanced in an attempt to secure it for the following season.....in other words the deal was put on hold for a season. No one foresaw Covid 19...how could they!
The problem we now have is that the virus has ****ed Donald into looking for a buyer who will take the club without promotion,because he can't afford to wait for something which may not happen quickly enough for him. FPP are still there,the deal is still alive,if we get promoted! In the meantime,Donald is looking for someone else who can complete sooner,'cos he's pissed off with us and can't afford to bankroll it until the uncertainty of promotion is achieved. Also,FPP know Donald would rather get rid than hang on to complete the deal with them,so they're looking at other options.