Formations and systems for next year

[Saintjoey]

A huge reason for our promotion this year was the teams ability to change shape seemlessly from somehting like this:

-------------------Davis-------------------

Richardson---Fonte----------Jos----------Fox

----------Schneiderlin--------Cork-----------

Guly---------------------------------------Lallana

----------Lambert-----------Sharp--------------


To this:

-------------------Davis-------------------

---------------Fonte----------Jos----------

Richardson------------------------------------Fox

------------------Schneiderlin-------------------

Guly---------------------------------------Cork

-------------------Lallana------------------

----------Lambert-----------Sharp-------------

This difference between the 2 is that the diamond gets more bodies into central midfield and allows you, in theory, to pass around the opposition's midfield. I can think of several games when we were forced into this change and pulled it off effortlessly.

My worry is that in the PL we could get overrun by powerhouse midfields. We aren't used to being dominated/outclassed through the middle and this will happen on the vast open pitches at the Etihad/Old Trafford etc. Now I'm not saying we won't be able to hold our own but do you think over preseason we should be practicing a formaiton with Lambert on his own, Schneiderlin as the quaterback, Hammond and Cork box-to-box/breaking up play and then practice breaking quickly to get players up to Lambert asap.

This is something new for our team and I'd be interested to see how we would adapt. I think Rickie's hold-up play is easilly good enough to play as a lone striker. This isn't supposed to be a negative thread just something for us tactical geeks to discuss

 

[pass the football]

Yeah I think that's a likely scenario, Lambert would fit the lone striker role very well, but my concern would be, if he is going to be a 'back-to-goal' target man, that our main goalscoring threat is removed. Getting other players into goalscoring positions for him to find, and then those players being able to convert chances, could be an issue.

Most likely this would involve Lallana and Guly/another as advanced wingers (the 4-3-3/4-5-1 formation we see so much these days), but Lallana's finishing often lets him down and I don't know if Guly has the pace to get up and down the pitch. Maybe Lee could play this role?

Will be an interesting challenge for the team. Hopefully we'll be able to take a leaf out of Swansea's book and play a possession game, which limits the opportunities for the opponents, but we've often struggled to do that this season when bullied by strong midfielders.

 

[Joe!]

As a self-professed tactical geek, I would never play Cork on the left of a wide diamond. I think we'll mainly play a flat 4 midfield at home, and try to play positive football like Swansea. We'll probably pack more into the middle in away games and especially against the bigger teams and there are a lot of different ways this can be done. Lambert can drop back into the hole if needed, and obviously Guly can play there very well. With a new right-winger, which I'm sure we can all agree we'll probably be getting, Guly will probably be a more central player. One more striker and perhaps a new playmaker as well would add plenty of depth and plenty of options.

 

[lamby]

Nigel will be ahead of us on this and whoever we bring in will give us a massive clue as to how we intend to play. Momentum will be key. We need a few early points on the board then we wont look back.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Most teams in the modern game use a 4-2-3-1 (or variation of), and I think against the teams that do this we will need to match it like has been suggested.

Lambert is good enough to operate as a lone target man. I would probably be inclined to play Guly just behind him (in the role that he is most natural in). Guly has been class when in a central role, and will overlap Rickie and score goals. Lallana on the left wing, who can also act as somewhat of a target man coming in from the wing when he needs to due to his exquisite first touch. Also, hopefully a new right winger to add a different threat from that side. Really, the aim is to pen the oppositions full backs in their own half. Full backs are one of the most important positions nowdays, as they can create so much space in the centre of the park by dragging a central midfielder out to cover them.

Play like we have been this season, ie knocking it up to lambert and playing off his knockdowns, keeping possession and playing it in the oppo's half.

We have been really good at keeping pressure up all season, Jack Cork has been fantastic at this from corners, at collecting the ball and applying pressure around their box. It's amazing how few teams actually win the ball and keep it in the opponents half from these sorts of positions. It's something we have been doing all season.

We are lucky in that when we come up against teams who play a 4-4-2, or if we are dominating a game/need a goal we have Sharp and a squad that can just resort to 4-4-2.

Essentially we just need to keep playing the positive posession footy that we have been, and I think we will do OK.

 

[SaintsFanAlex]

As a self-professed tactical geek, I would never play Cork on the left of a wide diamond. I think we'll mainly play a flat 4 midfield at home, and try to play positive football like Swansea. We'll probably pack more into the middle in away games and especially against the bigger teams and there are a lot of different ways this can be done. Lambert can drop back into the hole if needed, and obviously Guly can play there very well. With a new right-winger, which I'm sure we can all agree we'll probably be getting, Guly will probably be a more central player. One more striker and perhaps a new playmaker as well would add plenty of depth and plenty of options.

Do these tactics come into your head from playing FM?

Sometimes after smoking one the size of a parsnip I think of some excellent but strange tactical formations but I always forget to jot them down.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Do these tactics come into your head from playing FM?

Sometimes after smoking one the size of a parsnip I think of some excellent but strange tactical formations but I always forget to jot them down.

Hahaha! This is my favourite post ever. Same here.

 

[Itchen North Matt]

My preferred solution would be to drop Lambert deeper and allow him to play facing goal. Posession football doesn't (or at least shouldn't) involve whacking it up to the big guy. Posession football involves the midfield doing most of the work and the striker just doing simple stuff until he sticks it in the onion bag. That would suit Sharp more than Lambert. I'd put Lambert at the top of the triangle in midfield, spraying it left, right and through and making driving runs from deeper.

 

[SaintsFanAlex]

Do these tactics come into your head from playing FM?

Sometimes after smoking one the size of a parsnip I think of some excellent but strange tactical formations but I always forget to jot them down.

Hahaha! This is my favourite post ever. Same here.

It's quite annoying at the same time don't you think? I have a clear but crazy vision whilst on the green highway and everything seems to click and fall in place and make sense, The next day its gone lol grrr!

 

[benditlikeabanana]

hard away games we will need 5 in midfield with lambert upfront by himself. I would normally play spidy as holding midfield and guly attacking midfield, with lallana and chaplow(at the mo) on the wings. but tough games drop sharp and bring in cork or hammond . I fear the top teams will tear us a new one playing 442

 

[Joe!]

Do these tactics come into your head from playing FM?

Sometimes after smoking one the size of a parsnip I think of some excellent but strange tactical formations but I always forget to jot them down.

Haha, FM plays a part for sure.

 

[tiggermaster]

This subject has been partially discussed on the 'Chaplow Thread'. My view is that Schneiderlin and Lallana are Premiership class. Although both have weaknesses, their skills outweigh the deficits. Chaplow, Cork and Guly have aspects to their respective games that may add value to the team in the Premiership, but their deficits in my view are such that their effectiveness will be limited. Hammond has helped us get we are, but his limitations are there for all to see, not least the need for a tug boat to turn him round, he does not have Premiership capabilities. Puncheon likewise looks to me to be limited and likely a make weight in the transfer market. Therefore given that Ward-Prowse is not yet ready for regular first team duties we need 2 midfield players, one who is comfortable playing wide and another who is comfortable playing centrally.

As to formations, I think it has all been said, I particularly like the idea of Schneiderlin playing the 'Quarter Back' role in a flexible 4-5-1 / 4-3-3. However, anyone who went to Doncaster will recognise how vulnerable this team can be without Lambert and therefore finding a system that isn't reliant on his hold up play would also seem an urgent requirement. Maybe Lee and Sharpe will offer an alternative should Lambert find Premiership defenders less charitable. Right, roll me another parsnip..

 

[SaintsFanAlex]

This subject has been partially discussed on the 'Chaplow Thread'. My view is that Schneiderlin and Lallana are Premiership class. Although both have weaknesses, their skills outweigh the deficits. Chaplow, Cork and Guly have aspects to their respective games that may add value to the team in the Premiership, but their deficits in my view are such that their effectiveness will be limited. Hammond has helped us get we are, but his limitations are there for all to see, not least the need for a tug boat to turn him round, he does not have Premiership capabilities. Puncheon likewise looks to me to be limited and likely a make weight in the transfer market. Therefore given that Ward-Prowse is not yet ready for regular first team duties we need 2 midfield players, one who is comfortable playing wide and another who is comfortable playing centrally.

As to formations, I think it has all been said, I particularly like the idea of Schneiderlin playing the 'Quarter Back' role in a flexible 4-5-1 / 4-3-3. However, anyone who went to Doncaster will recognise how vulnerable this team can be without Lambert and therefore finding a system that isn't reliant on his hold up play would also seem an urgent requirement. Maybe Lee and Sharpe will offer an alternative should Lambert find Premiership defenders less charitable. Right, roll me another parsnip..

good post

 

[Saint]

I don't usually like talk of formations for our team other than 442 however, think we are suited to a 4231 as someone said above. Lambert would do well as the lone striker supposing we play the counter attacking passing football not the predictable hoof ball. Lallana can cut in perfectly from the left, guly playing cf just behind lambert allowing him to get forward more and distribute the ball, which he can do well when playing in the middle, the rm which I think we will sign should be the one to start rm, don't think de ridder is good enough for that, but Adkins knows best. Then the 2 holding midfielder of schniderlin and cork.

Then as someone else also said, lambert could play cf to set up sharp well especially as he is naturally a poacher.

Don't get me wrong this isn't necessarily the formation we should and will play but it would work I think

 

[Itchen North Matt]

Haha, FM plays a part for sure.

My FM team looks like this:

..............Ter Stegen...............
Brignoli...Tete...Djourou...Shaw
.........Cork...Strootman...........
Belhanda....Lamela...........Pilar
..............Rodriguez................

Westwood, Bartomeu, Karacan, Schneiderlin, Lallana, Felipe, Acquafresca

The formation is a fairly new innovation so I'm finding consistency a little hard, but when it works it really works. FM's grasp of tactics is on the whole excellent even if players aren't what they are in real life.

 

[Saint Possum]

This subject has been partially discussed on the 'Chaplow Thread'. My view is that Schneiderlin and Lallana are Premiership class. Although both have weaknesses, their skills outweigh the deficits. Chaplow, Cork and Guly have aspects to their respective games that may add value to the team in the Premiership, but their deficits in my view are such that their effectiveness will be limited. Hammond has helped us get we are, but his limitations are there for all to see, not least the need for a tug boat to turn him round, he does not have Premiership capabilities. Puncheon likewise looks to me to be limited and likely a make weight in the transfer market. Therefore given that Ward-Prowse is not yet ready for regular first team duties we need 2 midfield players, one who is comfortable playing wide and another who is comfortable playing centrally.

As to formations, I think it has all been said, I particularly like the idea of Schneiderlin playing the 'Quarter Back' role in a flexible 4-5-1 / 4-3-3. However, anyone who went to Doncaster will recognise how vulnerable this team can be without Lambert and therefore finding a system that isn't reliant on his hold up play would also seem an urgent requirement. Maybe Lee and Sharpe will offer an alternative should Lambert find Premiership defenders less charitable. Right, roll me another parsnip..

Totally agree, parsnip at all.
We should expect 4 to 5 new Squad signings with 2 or 3 going straight into the side.
I think Lambert has so much more in his locker and we wont get the best out of him playing him as a lone striker with Premiership Center Backs.
I believe Ricky and Possibly Gully ( depending on if he buys a center midfield play-maker ) will be our main threats to open up Pr-em defenses with Lallana and a new wide right player our other link up play threats.

 

[Itchen North Matt]

The options that aren't 442 or the diamond:

.....................Davis.....................
Richardson...Fonte...Hooiveld...Fox
...Schneiderlin...Hammond...Cork...
New RM.............................Lallana
....................Lambert...................

A rather dreary 451. Would be solid, but quite frankly I'd rather we got relegated than watch us play the soulless, defensive football we would get from this.

.....................Davis.....................
Richardson...Fonte...Hooiveld...Fox
..............Cork...Schneiderlin.........
....................Lallana....................
New RF.........Lambert..............Lee

A very attacking 433. It would need 2 pretty quick and energetic wingers who can operate wide as well as run ahead of Lambert. Without anyone running ahead of Lambert, you're left with the soulless 451. Lallana for all his qualities shoots like a little girl, so he wouldn't be ideal as a wide forward.

.....................Davis.....................
Richardson...Fonte...Hooiveld...Fox
..............Cork...Schneiderlin.........
New RM........Lambert.........Lallana
.....................Sharp....................

4231 where 10 men do the work and Sharp floats around looking for space or playing on the shoulder of the last defender. Lambert very much involved in build-up play. This style involves less running at defenders with pace and is probably more compatible with what we do at the moment. Lambert might have to do a bit of adjusting for that role, but he's no out and out poacher.

 

[saintlyhero]

It's a while ago now but in the FA cup against Blackpool two seasons ago we played a very effective 4-2-3-1.
I think the three comprised of Guly, puncheon and Lallana who pressed very effectively from the front and also could all inter change.
Despite the relative success of this experiment albeit against Blackpool reserves shows that Adkins preferred the two up top. Whether we look into this again we shall see.

 

[OddRiverOakWizards]

This subject has been partially discussed on the 'Chaplow Thread'. My view is that Schneiderlin and Lallana are Premiership class. Although both have weaknesses, their skills outweigh the deficits. Chaplow, Cork and Guly have aspects to their respective games that may add value to the team in the Premiership, but their deficits in my view are such that their effectiveness will be limited. Hammond has helped us get we are, but his limitations are there for all to see, not least the need for a tug boat to turn him round, he does not have Premiership capabilities. Puncheon likewise looks to me to be limited and likely a make weight in the transfer market. Therefore given that Ward-Prowse is not yet ready for regular first team duties we need 2 midfield players, one who is comfortable playing wide and another who is comfortable playing centrally.

As to formations, I think it has all been said, I particularly like the idea of Schneiderlin playing the 'Quarter Back' role in a flexible 4-5-1 / 4-3-3. However, anyone who went to Doncaster will recognise how vulnerable this team can be without Lambert and therefore finding a system that isn't reliant on his hold up play would also seem an urgent requirement. Maybe Lee and Sharpe will offer an alternative should Lambert find Premiership defenders less charitable. Right, roll me another parsnip..

Guly? I think he will thrive centrally at this level.

 

[OddRiverOakWizards]

I am not sure it is always a good idea trying to match opposition and play unfamiliar systems. If we take on Stoke at their game or Man City at theirs we will struggle. Sometimes we may need to counter opposition tactics but man for man match up against top teams will not work.