Sorry but I don't accept the comparison as being at all valid. Klopp left the dippers on the way up, or thereabouts, contrast that with the ****show that ETH put together and bequeathed to RM. As I say, not a valid comparison.
Match Day Thread Forever Match Day Thread
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The point is, you think someone like Ancelotti has a god-given right to make average players better. I personally think he would struggle badly with this current team given the lack of coaching they’ve had.
Secondly, most coaches in the EPL are now from other leagues and teams which are considered to be inferior, but they readapt their methods to make it work in the EPL.
Someone like Amorim is exactly what we need. Yes, the team stinks right now, but he has the right ideas. What we don’t need is circus of some known brand manager, etc. And it is not exactly as though we haven’t tried that and failed spectacularly.
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Yes, Ergo it is these utter spoofers as players who are the common denominator.
It's obvious.
Dalot has been around since Mourninho ffs. Lindelof was signed by Mourinho. Rashford given his debut by van Gaal, all three still there stinking the place out.
Amorim will have to be able to sign at least half a dozen players of his own choice to make anything work.
We just can't turn on the manager, again, it is an utterly ****ing ludicrous approach. This will all be on Ineos to make it work.
Amorim's fault, while the likes of (the captain!!!!) Fernandes gets himself sent off, yet again, and Onana throws one in, yet again.
**** sake.
Amid all the talk of stadiums and takeovers the one thing we need right now is cash - and we don't a pot to piss in. None of our current squad are capable of playing the RM way - not a one, and that's before you consider how many are actually good enough to play for the club in the first place. RM can't do anything with the players we have and it will take years to buy replacements by which time we could well be in a relegation battle.
As much as we can easily point the fingers at the players, the other question is why the ones that were brought in recent years are equally as useless as the long standing ones?
Also, we need to look at the list of players that have been shipped out only for them to go on and do better elsewhere.
I firmly believe it was a mistake to allow ETH the choice on which players to bring in. We completely wasted those years and the players bought under his reign. Effectively, the club has been was so badly managed.
In a way, I’m somewhat okay that the results are not pouring in because it will give Amorim more control to quickly get rid of players that are not quite what we need, Bruno included! But that won’t happen in one window. We need some smart buys, perhaps pursue out of contract players and bring in younger players given we don’t have the funds. I think this will take 3 transfer windows to get anywhere near stable and professional team.
The summer transfers are mixed messages, about whether they were Ten Hag signings even.
Zirkzee was definitely an Ashford one, as he posted about it on Instagram or X I think. De Ligt also his recommendation, and I guess the jury is still out but he's a decent player in there, he just needs to understand the new system.
Yoro looks good, no? And Mazaroui looks a good player, especially at the price.
Of the ten Hag signings that are absolute bum deals are Onana, way too inconsistent.
Antony, too expensive. I could see why we signed him, but only at maybe £20-30 million, not £90 ffs.
Not sure on Ugarte. Is he ten Hag or Ineos? And is he any good, doesn't really look it to me, so if he and Zirkzee aren't manager signings, has the idea the DoF signs them been that good anyway?
Hojlund could yet be decent, but at his age should never have been the No.9 to rely on. Too young and fragile for that.
Of the ones who are a success having left, McTominay was sold by Ineos to balance the books. He's doing well in a piss weak league by comparison, debatable whether he could be doing the same in the premier league. He hadn't before he left.
Sancho hasn't left and been a success. He's left and been Jadon Sancho.
Fred, I'd have him over Ugarte but he again is doing ok in a much weaker league.
The biggest mistake was extending Ten Hag's contract, obviously. He'd just won the FA Cup in some style though, so can see how that swayed them. Big mistake though, yes.
This is now ALL on Ineos to sort. It's their mess, and Amorim has to be supported with some players, instead of to be blamed for this.
I'd say three this window, and three more in summer, at least.
Zirkzee was definitely an Ashford one, as he posted about it on Instagram or X I think. De Ligt also his recommendation, and I guess the jury is still out but he's a decent player in there, he just needs to understand the new system.
Yoro looks good, no? And Mazaroui looks a good player, especially at the price.
Of the ten Hag signings that are absolute bum deals are Onana, way too inconsistent.
Antony, too expensive. I could see why we signed him, but only at maybe £20-30 million, not £90 ffs.
Not sure on Ugarte. Is he ten Hag or Ineos? And is he any good, doesn't really look it to me, so if he and Zirkzee aren't manager signings, has the idea the DoF signs them been that good anyway?
Hojlund could yet be decent, but at his age should never have been the No.9 to rely on. Too young and fragile for that.
Of the ones who are a success having left, McTominay was sold by Ineos to balance the books. He's doing well in a piss weak league by comparison, debatable whether he could be doing the same in the premier league. He hadn't before he left.
Sancho hasn't left and been a success. He's left and been Jadon Sancho.
Fred, I'd have him over Ugarte but he again is doing ok in a much weaker league.
The biggest mistake was extending Ten Hag's contract, obviously. He'd just won the FA Cup in some style though, so can see how that swayed them. Big mistake though, yes.
This is now ALL on Ineos to sort. It's their mess, and Amorim has to be supported with some players, instead of to be blamed for this.
I'd say three this window, and three more in summer, at least.
I agree with most of that analysis, especially keeping ETH in the summer. That was a critical point and it was never going to end well.
As for Hojlund being too young; he’s going to be 22 in February. At that age Rooney was already a veteran in the first team. I don’t think age has much to do with anything in football. If he’s good enough, the age argument shouldn’t come into it. Just look at how long we have been waiting for Rashford to come of age. Ultimately, I don’t think he’s the problem given the midfield behind him. Even Haaland would struggle in this team.
As for Hojlund being too young; he’s going to be 22 in February. At that age Rooney was already a veteran in the first team. I don’t think age has much to do with anything in football. If he’s good enough, the age argument shouldn’t come into it. Just look at how long we have been waiting for Rashford to come of age. Ultimately, I don’t think he’s the problem given the midfield behind him. Even Haaland would struggle in this team.
I agree with you on Hojlund, his movement and positional play are very good, he has good speed and is quite a good finisher.He is being starved of service but we will benefit from him once we fix that.
Unfortunately Zirkzee will never be good enough and needs replacing. Nice lad and a willing trier but i feel we probably have as good or better in the youth teams.
Yes, but Rooney has always had partners around him.
He comes into the side with Ruud there, towards the end he had van Persie, and plenty in-between.
Hojlund is expected to be the striker. No one else.
They brought in Zirkzee, he's not good enough.
Which raises the other the point, that does a DoF (with **** all football background) actual solve things?
I mean, who (the ****) even is Dan Ashworth? A ****ing nobody. Does he know a good striker any more than you and me do? Clearly not.
And how does having someone who runs a cycling team supposed to help?
Radcliffe needs to get all this right going forward, quickly.
Indeed! We now have Zirkzee when Rooney had Ronaldo, Scholes and Giggs playing alongside him.
This is why I wouldn’t even bother prioritizing yet another number 9 at this point in time. Never saw it as a problem actually, especially with ETH. What we need is to focus on rebuilding that inconsistent midfield, and primarily away from Bruno. He tries very hard but he can’t be the fulcrum going forward. We need a fresh general with great football brain to match. If we can get a single signing absolutely right in that midfield and get good flank players to add to Amad, it will be the catalyst needed.
Ultimately, I think this dreadful period needed to happen for things to start getting better. What we didn’t need is a new manager bump that hides other shortcomings. Ineos need to continue to be ruthless as they have demonstrated with Ashworth.
This period has laid the institution bare, and with no hiding for anyone.
This period has laid the institution bare, and with no hiding for anyone.
I said before the match (on the Newcastle thread) that we'd turn up and put in a 7/10 performance, we all know which players are going to play and what tactics we'll use and that the result will be entirely dictated by which Man Utd turn up and whether they are playing anywhere near their best.
****ing hell, it may change of course but this is the worst pile of **** you guys must have had to put up with that I can think of. So far your players need to buck their ideas up because they owe the fans more than this. We've not been good - we've been pretty disjointed for much of the game - you'll surely come out better in the second half and maybe there'll be a game to play.
I'd also add that whenever I see Man Utd I don't understand the criticism that Onana and Maguire get as they aren't the reason behind this level of performance. They're good players who make high profile mistakes. At least they turn up each week and seem to be usually quite good. Other players out there for oyu should not be near the pitch in a Man Utd shirt.
Anyway, whatever happens for the rest of this match good luck for the rest of the season. I kind of like Man Utd and it'd be good to seee you at least get up to 7-8th spot and push on next year to higher.
This system of starting 5 defenders is not even stopping the goals from flooding in. Quite astonishing! The system is simply not working and it is quite arrogant of Amorim to persist with it when the players are not there.
On the bench,
Garnacho, Antony, Mainoo, Yoro, Rashford… that is half of a decent team to be 2 down before half time at home.
On the bench,
Garnacho, Antony, Mainoo, Yoro, Rashford… that is half of a decent team to be 2 down before half time at home.
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I personally have never had an issue with Maguire. I've always said there's a very good old school centre half in there.
He should have been captain tonight, instead Martinez was given it and was utterly piss weak by comparison.
Agree Onana isn't one of the actual problems either. He's not great by any mean's, but is in a five or six of the current squad that would be on the keep list.
Not many others are.
Can see why we sacked Ashworth, given it was he who championed and signed Zirkzee.
I'd say both of us dodged a bullet with him.
Could certainly be worth giving Antony the LWB role, as it definitely doesn't work with Dalot.
The back three should be Maguire, de Ligt and Yoro, Martinez needs to he dropped.
Or go to a back four till we can recruit actual wing backs. Should have done that tonight tbh, but we still don't have a left back if we had.
Just feels very defeatist to go back to the same old 4 2 3 1 that has not worked previously anyway.
Whatever was used before, it certainly isn’t half as defeating as this current system. Besides, many teams in the league still play the old fashioned system. So playing 4-5-1 can’t be the problem.
From the way things look, teams know how to exploit this system yet Amorim is not flipping the script. This will be his downfall!
It won't be his downfall. He has to be supported.
He literally can't polish a turd, and 70% of those players are turds.
Anyway, we drew that second half!!
He literally can't polish a turd, and 70% of those players are turds.
Anyway, we drew that second half!!
You’re telling me that this team is simply not good enough to get a point from the last three games?
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