explanation?? Not really !

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SC SAFC said:
MAte are your for real?

Sunderland having too actual left backs? We went without for what seemed like 20 years without and now u want 2? greedy bastard hahaha

My reasoning was if we are that skint , he could have done a job and left money on the table for strengthening elsewhere. At the time he was let go I was also well chuffed with PVA and barring an injury thought we would have been strong enough down the left. I can't understand wtf has happened to him, are we asking to much of him going forward , defoe/connor were excellent at tracking back tail end of last year and helping him out, now not so much help. Defenders need to defend 1st and foremost imo.

Alonso at the prices being thrown around is an absolute steal!!
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<laugh> I don't think it's greedy fella. It's not some magical curse, clubs of variating finacial ability all over the world have two Lbs. The reason we don't as we've been badly ran, mass manager turnovers spotting verious priorities none of which has been LB competition or the youth system. It's not until we got a DOF we're sorting the youth system we have. Fact is we should have had a young LB competing for that second spot but we don't. If we can't afford two it's because the club has been mismanaged, if we can't bring a u21 in for compertition, it's because we've been mismanaged. we haven't been ran properly.

PVA has no competition. That's his problem I reckon and I'll doubt he'd be worried that a right footer adapting at an old age might take his place.

Alonso has to be the man for me like.
 
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Ellis Short has done a decent job of financing club since comming - football advice given to him has been appalling IMO - he is a successful venture capitalist in the business he knows - a risk taker - wait until he gets in depth knowledge of football business - must be nearly there now - we need fans players and club to be pulling together - fans not leaving ridiculously early - Advocaat will succeed - KTF and hope
 
Gustavo's Gonads said:
Yeah, I agreed with renewing Larsson, but the facts are if we are blaming historical contracts for the current situation, either those that have been renewed are on reduced terms, or lessons haven't been learned and someone needs fired.

Simple facts of the matter are, we are blaming historical mistakes, now, bar Graham, who else is left from the Keane/Bruce/MON eras who'd be on a big contract? Johnson, yeah but despite the issues with him, his contract is appropriate to his standing at the time of signing, what none of this explains is the size of the wage bill, and the fact that a lot of the players have been signed within the last couple years, the same mistakes, clearly, are still being made.

There's still the question as well as to how the profits from Hendo, Gyan, Bent etc have not closed the leaking in the clubs finances, how are we, and not the likes of Stoke, Swansea etc running at a massive loss?

Are we overstaffed off the park? Still paying for the stadium and AOL? There's a huge black hole in the clubs finances and just saying 'wages are too high' doesn't seem to cut it.

Who signs off the contracts, who keeps the wage bill sky high? That's the question. And that person needs replaced, immediately.
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This is absolutely spot on. I was thinking of this when reading the 'questions for anybody at the club' thread - 'Ellis, could you publish full accounts incl all incomings and outgoings?'

We may have high wages now. We definitely used to have high wages. But we also have a reasonable net spend, apparently huge commercial deals (remember all the fuss around Bidvest?), decent crowds and ground rent for events, nearly a full decade of PL TV money which is only ever increasing.

I'm 100% behind us living within means and being financially responsible, but then so are Stoke, Swansea, etc who all manage to do a lot more. We've been overtaken by 5 or 6 clubs in the past few seasons. (Can anybody even properly explain this £21.5m that ES mentioned?)

Sadly, my guess is that a lot of it goes on terminating contracts of managers and their teams of backroom staff, and payments for hiring new ones.
 
I've mentioned who I believe was/is massively culpable in contract & transfer negotiations - Maggie Burn - therein lies one part of the problem IMO
Ellis Short has just been ill advised & has led & supported the club with best intentions - he will succeed as he has as a venture capitalist but we must expect some risks - its in his mindset - risk taking = success --- still KTF and ETU
 
red&white wanderer said:
I've mentioned who I believe was/is massively culpable in contract & transfer negotiations - Maggie Burn - therein lies one part of the problem IMO
Ellis Short has just been ill advised & has led & supported the club with best intentions - he will succeed as he has as a venture capitalist but we must expect some risks - its in his mindset - risk taking = success --- still KTF and ETU
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What is success for Short selling the club for a profit ? Think keeping the club in the Premiership doubt he will spend big money chasing Europe , Talks about spending but he got good money for Henderson Bent Mignolet
 
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Stu_SAFC said:
This is absolutely spot on. I was thinking of this when reading the 'questions for anybody at the club' thread - 'Ellis, could you publish full accounts incl all incomings and outgoings?'

We may have high wages now. We definitely used to have high wages. But we also have a reasonable net spend, apparently huge commercial deals (remember all the fuss around Bidvest?), decent crowds and ground rent for events, nearly a full decade of PL TV money which is only ever increasing.

I'm 100% behind us living within means and being financially responsible, but then so are Stoke, Swansea, etc who all manage to do a lot more. We've been overtaken by 5 or 6 clubs in the past few seasons. (Can anybody even properly explain this £21.5m that ES mentioned?)

Sadly, my guess is that a lot of it goes on terminating contracts of managers and their teams of backroom staff, and payments for hiring new ones.
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The figures bandied around (though only Mathew was disclosed to my knowledge) have been around:
Lens £8m, Mathews £2m, Coates £2-3m, Kaboul ??. That equates perhaps £15-16m at a guess but there was probably a loan fee for M'Villa (as is usual) and you had to sign Vergini as well.

The Vergini and possibly the Alvarez deals scupper you a bit, that's money which may well just being flushed away.
 
IMO Success for Ellis Short is a successful club - he is a businessman at the end of the day so of course will be looking to make a profit at some stage but I believe he has fallen under the magic that is being a Sunderland supporter (as Neil Quinn thought) - but with a business-mans eyes KTF but ETU
 
Gustavo's Gonads said:
Yeah, I agreed with renewing Larsson, but the facts are if we are blaming historical contracts for the current situation, either those that have been renewed are on reduced terms, or lessons haven't been learned and someone needs fired.

Simple facts of the matter are, we are blaming historical mistakes, now, bar Graham, who else is left from the Keane/Bruce/MON eras who'd be on a big contract? Johnson, yeah but despite the issues with him, his contract is appropriate to his standing at the time of signing, what none of this explains is the size of the wage bill, and the fact that a lot of the players have been signed within the last couple years, the same mistakes, clearly, are still being made.

There's still the question as well as to how the profits from Hendo, Gyan, Bent etc have not closed the leaking in the clubs finances, how are we, and not the likes of Stoke, Swansea etc running at a massive loss?

Are we overstaffed off the park? Still paying for the stadium and AOL? There's a huge black hole in the clubs finances and just saying 'wages are too high' doesn't seem to cut it.

Who signs off the contracts, who keeps the wage bill sky high? That's the question. And that person needs replaced, immediately.
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10 managers in 10 years has to be part of the reason. The wage bill must include the gaffer, so we're probably still paying the wages of Poyet, Di Canio and O'Neil!
 
Dorset said:
10 managers in 10 years has to be part of the reason. The wage bill must include the gaffer, so we're probably still paying the wages of Poyet, Di Canio and O'Neil!
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And we wonder why we struggle to sign quality players!
 
Well there you go - a risk takeing businessman investing his money to make money - is that so wrong he has given us a vast amount of financial support and his time - still does IMO - but not infinate money ....
BM I think geography plays a large part in attracting players and investment - part of our problem at the moment - we need to hit the financial tipping point - as do loads of other clubs - at the moment we just KTF and become frequent emotional wrecks -ahy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
 
red&white wanderer said:
Well there you go - a risk takeing businessman investing his money to make money - is that so wrong he has given us a vast amount of financial support and his time - still does IMO - but not infinate money ....
BM I think geography plays a large part in attracting players and investment - part of our problem at the moment - we need to hit the financial tipping point - as do loads of other clubs - at the moment we just KTF and become frequent emotional wrecks -ahy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
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hadyway and ****e hes a tight arse of the first order, and with him at the helm we will drop through the leagues like a stone, are you by any chance related to him, as you seem to be defending the ****er, just look at his history
 
We've lost money every year yet people decide the bloke's a tight arse.

He's spending money... Just not spending it well.

He needs to poach a decent, experienced chief exec and other board members to help him invest the money he does stick in.
 
AR I understand your emotional post but unless we are financed by a Global financial institution aka Man City and were not geographically remote in NE - we would be better off - I was not really defending ES only understanding his position - he has said mistakes have been made - I find it difficult to criticise a successful man in his line of business -IMO we should be pleased he decided to finance us and come on our journey - we know its (emotionally) challenging but never boring - IMO Dick has also come under the Mackem spell and will stay for a while - he's just posturing and papers/media are of course being negative - but your views are no more right than mine at the end of the day - KTF and ETU
 
AR - just noticed - no not related in any way to ES - just a long suffering Sunderland fan - my dad took me occaisionally in the last 20 mins or so during 62 season sitting on a home made wooden seat on stancheons in Roker End then standing on a crackett (BTY my gran lived near Roker Park & took me to RP to my dad ) first full ga me 64-65 against leicester -15yr old Derek Foster magnificent in goal - 3-3 I believe - definately not American in the least though - KTF
 
Disco - Cof E - Maggie Burn I believe - constant feature of our recent irresponsible contractual and transfer mess - I'll end there as I feel an emotional moment comming on - I might say something I regret if you know what Ii mean on an emotional level - hopefully no villans today - just KTF and ETU
 
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