Euro 2016 - Discussion Thread.

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Smirnoffpriest said:
This is what I can't understand about England - I mean I know they're not amazing but they've got a decent to good side but they all play as individuals with no system, no cohesion. Maybe it's the ridiculous pressure and expectation that they get put under, but they just never seem to show any sort of ability to play as a team/unit or any technical ability.

I think having players playing in other leagues would help, it would increase England's strength in depth as well as improving the players technical ability and giving the players experience of different playing styles.
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I blame it on the culture. Hyping players too early gives them a false sense of achievement. There's little motivation. They are already living like big dogs so they have "nothing" to strive for. They are not that good were their ability see them through. The guys need something to spark them. They get too much too soon with little to strive for
 
TheBear said:
Wilshere wasn't a mistake. When he came on he was the only England player looking to make forward passes.

Strurridge and Kane shouldn't have started. The key to beating a side like Iceland is keeping the ball and making them chase. Wilshere and Barkley should have started as should Vardy.

Kane should have been dropped.
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This is whats wrong with the whole preparation process, taking a player that was crocked for a year with no competitive football under his belt. Why was that, because he was special Wilshere, the golden boy? What about all the players that had really good seasons and proved themselves? Wilshere is good but not that bloody good that we HAD to take him. Then you go onto the preparation process, how many matches did he play for England leading up to the Euros. What this shows is that Hodgson didn't know his best 11 and relied on the big branded players. It made a mockery of the whole selection process, dropping two in form players in Drinkwater and Townsend, because they weren't "big names", for other players.

Too many mistakes were made and Hodgson succumbed to the usual big player pandering. Play the players that make the best team, not play the best players and hope you can make it work as a team.
 
blukyt said:
I blame it on the culture. Hyping players too early gives them a false sense of achievement. There's little motivation. They are already living like big dogs so they have "nothing" to strive for. They are not that good were their ability see them through. The guys need something to spark them. They get too much too soon with little to strive for
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Of course it is and the media are guilty as hell. But English talent is regularly overpriced and overrated. Look at Arsenal now, how many homegrown UK players regularly make the first 11? Despite our huge investment, we've had poor returns. Gibbs, Jenkinson, Wilshere, Walcott and OXO can't even make the 11, and Wenger has tried his best to accommodate. We only had Wilshere representing us this Euro's and even that selection was debatable.
 
IMO it is not a question on their ability. It's in attitude, application and desire. There's little ambition to be great when you are wealthy so early. They need to let the players mature in age and mind before giving them the world. Iceland beat England in desire. The GK is a Video Director not a pro footballer. They have no high profile player which makes them bond even stronger and fight for each other. Funny how football being a team sport is getting highlighted now
 
blukyt said:
IMO it is not a question on their ability. It's in attitude, application and desire. There's little ambition to be great when you are wealthy so early. They need to let the players mature in age and mind before giving them the world. Iceland beat England in desire. The GK is a Video Director not a pro footballer. They have no high profile player which makes them bond even stronger and fight for each other. Funny how football being a team sport is getting highlighted now
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I totally agree with you. Funny how Bales comments ring true even when some of it was tongue in cheek. Funny how the two most passionate players on the pitch were Vardy and Rushford, one who just made it and the other one on the way to it.
 
lazarus20000 said:
Of course it is and the media are guilty as hell. But English talent is regularly overpriced and overrated. Look at Arsenal now, how many homegrown UK players regularly make the first 11? Despite our huge investment, we've had poor returns. Gibbs, Jenkinson, Wilshere, Walcott and OXO can't even make the 11, and Wenger has tried his best to accommodate. We only had Wilshere representing us this Euro's and even that selection was debatable.
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tbf all of those players have had consistent injury problems (besides Jenks but even he has broken his leg).
 
Smirnoffpriest said:
This is what I can't understand about England - I mean I know they're not amazing but they've got a decent to good side but they all play as individuals with no system, no cohesion. Maybe it's the ridiculous pressure and expectation that they get put under, but they just never seem to show any sort of ability to play as a team/unit or any technical ability.

I think having players playing in other leagues would help, it would increase England's strength in depth as well as improving the players technical ability and giving the players experience of different playing styles.
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You have to wonder though..

Its not JUST the players. The FA are totally incompetent and their managerial choices are beyond awful.

Sven Goran Eriksen - He was never the great manager he was made out to be. The fact he failed at Leicester, Mexico, The Ivory Coast and is now working in China shows us what his level really is.
Steve McClaren - A mid-tier British manager at best. Decent enough to manage a Championship side or perhaps a Premierlaegue team fighting relegation. But nowhere near a TOP level manger.
Fabio Capello - A once successful manager that refused to change with the times and got left behind. The FA appointed this guy perhaps 10 years too late.
Roy Hodgson - Never going to be good enough to win things at this level. He's an old school English Manager. Tactically nowhere near the required standard.
 
I wouldn't want to be the England manager, apart fro the massive salary. You never get decent time with your squad. When you do get together with them half of them are 'injured' and are restricted to attend by their clubs and the weight of the expectation set by the press is too much. I'm not defending him as he went into the jobs eyes open but it is little surprise that Hodgson appeared not to know his best team. As for the players-appeared to show little pride in playing for their country and a massive lack of self respect. Very sad and disheartening. Many changes needed starting with replacing a captain who showed little leadership and playing those that are in form. Why Jack was selected is beyond my comprehension as was the non selection of Drinkwater and Townsend as has been pointed out already. It's always easier to say this in hindsight, but I wasn't surprised that Iceland won. Their attitude was and is everything ours was not and should be.
 
Smirnoffpriest said:
tbf all of those players have had consistent injury problems (besides Jenks but even he has broken his leg).
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Gibbs was displaced and subsequently benched by Monreal's superior form this season. Jenkinson was loaned out due to not being good enough. OXO had a poor season before he got injured and Wilshere has been injured but would struggle to get into our first 11, when everyone's fit.

Considering all these players have had plenty of opportunities to secure their place, they haven't done quite so well to cement it.
 
Gareth Southgate fits the FA mold perfectly. Managerially mediocre, dour personality, uninspiring. Expect him to be in charge for at least the next 2 major tournaments to achieve nothing but come out of the end of it saying he's learnt a lot for next time.
 
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lazarus20000 said:
Gibbs was displaced and subsequently benched by Monreal's superior form this season. Jenkinson was loaned out due to not being good enough. OXO had a poor season before he got injured and Wilshere has been injured but would struggle to get into our first 11, when everyone's fit.

Considering all these players have had plenty of opportunities to secure their place, they haven't done quite so well to cement it.
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My point was that Oxo has had consistent injury problems in the same way as Wilshere, Theo and Ramsey which has hampered their development, and to a lesser extent Gibbs and Jenks. Gibbs showed poor form (when given the chance) last season and was rightfully displaced by Monreal's superior form. But I don't think you can just dismiss all these players horrific injury records just because, using Oxo for example, for this season he was poor before he suffered an injury at the end of the season.

IMO their development curve (or at least their progress along that curve) has been affected by getting injured so often so young. Which could be one explaination as to why they haven't fulfilled their potential.
 
Smirnoffpriest said:
My point was that Oxo has had consistent injury problems in the same way as Wilshere, Theo and Ramsey which has hampered their development, and to a lesser extent Gibbs and Jenks. Gibbs showed poor form (when given the chance) last season and was rightfully displaced by Monreal's superior form. But I don't think you can just dismiss all these players horrific injury records just because, using Oxo for example, for this season he was poor before he suffered an injury at the end of the season.

IMO their development curve (or at least their progress along that curve) has been affected by getting injured so often so young. Which could be one explaination as to why they haven't fulfilled their potential.
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I agree injuries do play a part in development, but you could also say that they've reached their maximum potential. Ultimately Wenger will make the final decision on whether the players are good enough to continue. Don't be surprised if he starts shipping them out, starting with Walcott....
 
I agree that I expect Walcott to be first out of the door. I hope we keep Gibbs, he's an excellent understudy to Monreal - unless we by the Switz we are linked to. I also think there's time for Jenks to develop. The others are on last throw...
 
I don't trust Gibbs. Too lightweight for me. I think we urgently need a LB if we are serious. I would love Ricardo Rodriguez. And have him battle with Monreal. Gibbs is just not trustworthy - inconsistent and won't stay fit. Doesn't offer much if you really think about it football-wise. Mediocre defender and mediocre going forward. How many assists has he got? Crossing is poor. We need better quality there for sure
 
Just to change the subject to something a bit more positive and steer us away from another endless thread of slagging off our own players -

Wales are in the Muthafucking Quarters!!!! How incredible is that? I know we've got a tough, tough game against Belgium but it's incredible and especially that we are facing a team that we beat and drew with the last two times we faced them.
 
Smirnoffpriest said:
Just to change the subject to something a bit more positive and steer us away from another endless thread of slagging off our own players -

Wales are in the Muthafucking Quarters!!!! How incredible is that? I know we've got a tough, tough game against Belgium but it's incredible and especially that we are facing a team that we beat and drew with the last two times we faced them.
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This is not in relation to what I just posted about our "LB" position, "right"?
 
Smirnoffpriest said:
I know, sorry if it sounded like it was.

I was just trying to keep it lighthearted and concentrate on something positive rather than negatives in our team. (and mainly talk about Wales!!!) :emoticon-0102-bigsm
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Ramsey's haircut needs to be sold. Can't be trusted. Can't tackle, can't make 5 yard passes. :emoticon-0110-tongu
 
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