Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

[Skylarker]

Worth a try. He hasn't got a gun, has he...

He is a gun owner, Yes!

Not sure if he has one in Malta though

 

[Skylarker]

Probably. He's a gangster.

Like father, like son

 

[DMD]

I am an old school Labour supporter. I was disgusted when clause 4 was scrapped. That has allowed many of our key industries, water, energy supply and transport etc to be owned by companies, many of which are not British,where profit comes before service. The illusion of competition driving down prices has been shown to be false. When these industries were in public ownership any profit came back to the treasury. The recent sale of the mail service for a knockdown price is a prime example of Tory dogma. They sold just as it was about to make a profit.
This is why Labour needs to be more left-wing and rid itself of the Tory-lite Blairites. When two parties were putting forward policies that were effectively very similar the electorate chose the one that always espoused those policies. Jeremy Corbyn has set the party back on the right path. It may be that it is not him that reaps the reward, but it is to his credit that he took on the Blairites and won. To reject him now would be to condemn the country to Tory policies fora very long time.

Privatisation has been a mistake from so many angles. I'd be in favour of nationalising the utilities, like gas and electric as well as the railways. The problem is that the profit driven actions of private industry, has resulted in a lack of reinvestment in the basic infrastructure, that was in good shape when they took over, so it needs a massive reinvestment and soon.

 

[Tobes]

Like father, like son

U no gangsta brah

 

[paultheplug]

Labour won 3 consecutive elections until 2010, so how can you say that they didn't have an appeal to the centre ground?

Corbyn is a fossil. A throwback to a time when Labour became unelectable. Moving way to the left will ensure Labour merely become a fringe party. He may appeal to the old Skool Labour Party member but he'll never win over the sector than will deliver a GE victory

That was a 'Labour Party' that promised to continue Tory spending plans, or cuts as they are properly called. Blair made the party almost indistinguishable from the Tories. I doubt very much that a proper Labour government would have agreed to bomb Iraq and continue the chain of events that have led us to the disastrous situation in the Middle East that we now have.
I agree that it does seem unlikely that Corbyn will win the next election, but we must continue to put a noticeable distance between us and the Tories.

 

[petersaxton]

Privatisation has been a mistake from so many angles. I'd be in favour of nationalising the utilities, like gas and electric as well as the railways. The problem is that the profit driven actions of private industry, has resulted in a lack of reinvestment in the basic infrastructure, that was in good shape when they took over, so it needs a massive reinvestment and soon.

I'm in favour of nationalisation of the main industries but I wouldn't accept the unions taking advantage of the lack of competition to try to force wages up.

 

[Fez]

A lot of people joined the Labour Party in the last year or so because of Corbyn not because they were Labour Party supports.
Most Labour Party MPs are anti-Corbyn. Most present members of the Labour Party are pro-Corbyn. I would think that most Labour voters are anti-Corbyn. How do you think it will be resolved?

I think that Labour are confused about their purpose. Corbyn has very clear principles and views on what his party is about. A huge number of the party members liked what he represented (in fair comparison to his campaign opponents) and a further element were sufficiently enthused to join the Labour Party.

The problem is that the Parliamentary Labour Party, the MPs, believe his ideology to be unelectable, so they want to avoid it, disparage it, get rid of it (him), as power is more important that principle, apparently. It has nothing to do with his leadership style, that is a dishonest excuse.

I see Corbyn as a very good reflection of what the party membership want, so that is what they should get. If MPs don't like that then they are in the wrong job and, maybe, the wrong party.

I haven't voted Labour for a good few years, I am not a big fan of Corbyn, his acolytes, or many of his principles, but I think what is happening to him is wrong on every level.

 

[Tobes]

That was a 'Labour Party' that promised to continue Tory spending plans, or cuts as they are properly called. Blair made the party almost indistinguishable from the Tories. I doubt very much that a proper Labour government would have agreed to bomb Iraq and continue the chain of events that have led us to the disastrous situation in the Middle East that we now have.
I agree that it does seem unlikely that Corbyn will win the next election, but we must continue to put a noticeable distance between us and the Tories.

Iraq was a disgrace mate, but that defines Blair and not that entire Labour era.

Labour increased public spending massively during that era, largely off the back of a booming economy that they helped create. The fact that they didn't set themselves up as juxtaposed to everything that could ever be considered 'Tory' was one of the reasons they were so successful with the electorate. Instead of pouring scorn on that era, Labour should be reflecting on it and revisiting what made them electable both in terms of policy and PR.

 

[Fez]

If anything, they joined because Corbyn reignited their shared belief in Labour.

Spot on.

 

[Tobes]

I think that Labour are confused about their purpose. Corbyn has very clear principles and views on what his party is about. A huge number of the party members liked what he represented (in fair comparison to his campaign opponents) and a further element were sufficiently enthused to join the Labour Party.

The problem is that the Parliamentary Labour Party, the MPs, believe his ideology to be unelectable, so they want to avoid it, disparage it, get rid of it (him), as power is more important that principle, apparently. It has nothing to do with his leadership style, that is a dishonest excuse.

I see Corbyn as a very good reflection of what the party membership want, so that is what they should get. If MPs don't like that then they are in the wrong job and, maybe, the wrong party.

I haven't voted Labour for a good few years, I am not a big fan of Corbyn, his acolytes, or many of his principles, but I think what is happening to him is wrong on every level.

Corbyn is notoriously hard to get hold of as are his team. He's avoided meetings with numerous MP's that he's supposed to be leading. That's the feedback that's part of the reason that he's deemed to be a poor leader. His performance in the referendum was bloody awful to boot.

 

[Treble]

I am nice to him, but too much water under the bridge now!

He has a lovely villa in Mellieha, and does his banking there

I'm still waiting for a ****ing invite

I hired a villa in Melleiha for a couple of weeks. Lovely little local supermarket and pub at the top of the hill, lots of little grape trees and orange groves all over the place. Beautiful surroundings, imo the best place on the island. One of the best holidays I've ever had, but then that's easy bcos I love Malta.

 

[DMD]

I think that Labour are confused about their purpose. Corbyn has very clear principles and views on what his party is about. A huge number of the party members liked what he represented (in fair comparison to his campaign opponents) and a further element were sufficiently enthused to join the Labour Party.

The problem is that the Parliamentary Labour Party, the MPs, believe his ideology to be unelectable, so they want to avoid it, disparage it, get rid of it (him), as power is more important that principle, apparently. It has nothing to do with his leadership style, that is a dishonest excuse.

I see Corbyn as a very good reflection of what the party membership want, so that is what they should get. If MPs don't like that then they are in the wrong job and, maybe, the wrong party.

I haven't voted Labour for a good few years, I am not a big fan of Corbyn, his acolytes, or many of his principles, but I think what is happening to him is wrong on every level.

I know very little about Corbyn, and that is pretty much all from what I've been presented with by the main stream media. What I've seen doesn't demonstrate what I would say was considered as leadership qualities.

Are the media misrepresenting him, and if so, is that because he's not media savvy, or are other factors at work and manipulating the story?

 

[Tobes]

I hired a villa in Melleiha for a couple of weeks. Lovely little local supermarket and pub at the top of the hill, lots of little grape trees and orange groves all over the place. Beautiful surroundings, imo the best place on the island. One of the best holidays I've ever had, but then that's easy bcos I love Malta.

Never been to Malta, but you're tempting me. What time of year would you say is the best time to visit mate?

 

[Treble]

I am an old school Labour supporter. I was disgusted when clause 4 was scrapped. That has allowed many of our key industries, water, energy supply and transport etc to be owned by companies, many of which are not British,where profit comes before service. The illusion of competition driving down prices has been shown to be false. When these industries were in public ownership any profit came back to the treasury. The recent sale of the mail service for a knockdown price is a prime example of Tory dogma. They sold just as it was about to make a profit.
This is why Labour needs to be more left-wing and rid itself of the Tory-lite Blairites. When two parties were putting forward policies that were effectively very similar the electorate chose the one that always espoused those policies. Jeremy Corbyn has set the party back on the right path. It may be that it is not him that reaps the reward, but it is to his credit that he took on the Blairites and won. To reject him now would be to condemn the country to Tory policies fora very long time.

I like to think I'm an old skool Labour supporter too, but Corbyn isn't the only way. I know I keep banging on about this, but the biggest tragedy to happen to the Labour party and therefore to this country in modern times, was the death of John Smith. Now THERE was a decent bloke, a man of principle, a "traditional Labour" Leader who would have modernised the party, kept a massive public appeal with the electorate out there without selling his soul like Blair. There is no doubt he would have won the 97 election and with Brown as Chancellor created a "left of centre" government which the vast majority of the public would have supported. What I'm getting at, is that you don't have to redress the balance of "New Labour" by going Left Wing to the extent Corbyn has.

I worry when I hear people openly saying it needs to be "more left wing" because that means different things to different people. The problem is that if (as appears to be likely) Corbyn gets it badly wrong and leaves, he will have done more damage to the left wing cause as it will reinforce the misconception that Labour should be a capitalist, centerist party or that showing yourself to be in the slightest bit left-wing makes you unelectable. I personally think Corbyn's biggest failing is he's just not savvy enough in his handling of the media. At best that's incomptence, at worst it shows a man out of his depth.

 

[Treble]

Never been to Malta, but you're tempting me. What time of year would you say is the best time to visit mate?

I've only ever been during the summer. That to me was perfect, wasn't too hot imo but then I like the sun. I would definitely recommend it - hire a car and take your time. The island has lots to experience and each city/town is different. Also take a short ferry hop to Gozo and that's beautiful as well. If I ever retire, Malta would get some serious consideration.

EDIT: Although retiring in Melleiha may be out of my price range, it's the more expensive part tbf.

 

[paultheplug]

Iraq was a disgrace mate, but that defines Blair and not that entire Labour era.

Labour increased public spending massively during that era, largely off the back of a booming economy that they helped create. The fact that they didn't set themselves up as juxtaposed to everything that could ever be considered 'Tory' was one of the reasons they were so successful with the electorate. Instead of pouring scorn on that era, Labour should be reflecting on it and revisiting what made them electable both in terms of policy and PR.

They failed to remove many of the Thatcher/Major laws and regulations that discriminated against working people and that were advantageous to big business and the rich. Thatcher's predecessor, Heath came across as more left wing than Blair.

 

[Fez]

Corbyn is notoriously hard to get hold of as are his team. He's avoided meetings with numerous MP's that he's supposed to be leading. That's the feedback that's part of the reason that he's deemed to be a poor leader. His performance in the referendum was bloody awful to boot.

That is something that can be sorted internally; as a reason to get rid of him, in the manner they are attempting, it is simply a dishonest veil to hide behind.

 

[Tobes]

I've only ever been during the summer. That to me was perfect, wasn't too hot imo but then I like the sun. I would definitely recommend it - hire a car and take your time. The island has lots to experience and each city/town is different. Also take a short ferry hop to Gozo and that's beautiful as well. If I ever retire, Malta would get some serious consideration.

EDIT: Although retiring in Melleiha may be out of my price range, it's the more expensive part tbf.

Cheers fella. I'll have a gander. I love relaxing villa holidays and having a mooch about in a hire car, so it's sounds right up my street.

 

[Tobes]

They failed to remove many of the Thatcher/Major laws and regulations that discriminated against working people and that were advantageous to big business and the rich. Thatcher's predecessor, Heath came across as more left wing than Blair.

Such as mate?

 

[Fez]

I know very little about Corbyn, and that is pretty much all from what I've been presented with by the main stream media. What I've seen doesn't demonstrate what I would say was considered as leadership qualities.

Are the media misrepresenting him, and if so, is that because he's not media savvy, or are other factors at work and manipulating the story?

As I said, I think the leadership issues are dishonest excuse. There are issues, but when the timeline and events are considered, it is fair to question whether or not sufficient time and effort has been given to resolving them.

In my opinion it is all about the fact he will introduce principles and processes into the party that better reflect the reasons he received such huge support in the party leadership election. The concern of the PLP is that they see this making their ascension to power as something more remote than their careers demand.