Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

[DMD]

... the company I work for is one of the largest employers in the UK ... we have plenty of 'opportunities' ... but British youth isn't that interested in filling them ... surprise surprise ... hence whole shifts are more or less completely manned by European, African and Asian immigrants ... that is the reality ... the ease of welfare state support has led to generations of British gamer sloths that won't work for a living but will be ******** if they are going to share the same benefits with people from overseas ... because they are OUR benefits ...

What an appalling attitude.

Why surprise surprise? That's a sweeping slur on the youth of this nation. Your solution seems to be to discard them, and pay them benefits to do nothing, while at the same time, adding to the loss of assets in countries that are struggling. Instead, perhaps we should look at why the youth won't work for you.

I know several companies that take on modern apprentices, who work extremely hard for a pittance for the hope of a long term job. Perhaps the youth you're talking of don't want to work in such a pompous, arrogant environment.

 

[FosseFilberto]

David Cameron to chair final cabinet as UK prime minister
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36769898
Meanwhile, in the Labour Party ...
Labour to decide on Corbyn ballot entry
"A decision on whether Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn should automatically be included in the party's leadership race is set to be made by its ruling National Executive Committee.
Labour-commissioned legal analysis states he needs nominations by 51 MPs and MEPs - just like any challenger - but unions say, as leader, he does not.
Mr Corbyn has vowed to fight any exclusion from the ballot paper.
Angela Eagle launched a challenge to Mr Corbyn's leadership on Monday.
The former shadow business secretary said she could provide the leadership "in dark times for Labour" that Mr Corbyn could not.
Mr Corbyn, who was elected leader in a vote of grassroots members last year, will speak at the Unite union's policy conference in Brighton later, as the party's NEC meets in London.
"The subject matter - the internal rules of a Labour leadership contest - sounds dry," says BBC political correspondent Iain Watson.
"But the decision Labour's national executive makes later today could be explosive.
"If Jeremy Corbyn is forced to seek nominations from 50 fellow MPs, he could struggle to get on the ballot as only 40 of his party backed him on a motion of no confidence recently."
More than 170 supported the motion, following a series of resignations from the shadow cabinet by MPs protesting at Mr Corbyn's leadership.
The BBC has seen legal advice sent to Unite by solicitors that says: "The rules by which the Labour Party is governed are unambiguous: the leader does not require any signatures to be nominated in a leadership election where there is a potential challenger to the leadership."
It is thought Mr Corbyn would struggle to amass 51 signatures because his support is concentrated in the party's wider membership.
The solicitors make clear that legal action will be launched unless Mr Corbyn is automatically on the leadership ballot, and they would halt any leadership election by applying to the High Court for an injunction.
Meanwhile, a YouGov poll for the Election Data website suggested that of 1,221 trade union members surveyed, 63% thought Mr Corbyn was doing badly as leader, compared with 33% who thought he was doing well."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36770627

... because ALL trade union members are Labour supporters of course ...

Meanwhile at Sensible Party HQ ... Mrs Saxton sets a new viewing record for watching the movie Shirley Valentine ...

 

[DMD]

There are a couple of things that it will be a shame to lose for our most educated youth. The ability to study within the EEA as if you are a national of that country has been used by many to avoid finishing degrees and having large student debts, the Erasmus exchange program has benefits for those looking to work in areas requiring European cooperation. Also our educated youth benefit from European cooperative research projects, something the EU are already refusing to fund if UK nationals are involved and research is expected to last more than 2 years.
The youth unemployment is also not consistent across Europe, ours is 13%, Germany 7%, Netherlands 11% so while some may come here for jobs, our youth can also go abroad to take advantage of other markets. It is also the case that the southern european countries have seen significant drops in unemployment rates over the last 12 months.

The ability to learn in different countries varies, so there's nothing to preclude individual exchange programmes. Youth unemployment is still high across Europe, and any drop could be a consequence of people leaving, rather than an upturn in employment.

 

[Fez]

...and talking of the usual brand of utter bollocks, and up it pops!

Mate, you are the only one who didn't seem to realise who I was referring to.

The only person here determined to be right, even when they're patently wrong, is you.

And you can put up all the smilies you like. They still won't make you right!....

I can't alter what you replied to BobbyD, you might of thought you were referring to someone else, but the way in which you phrased it did not make it in any way clear, quite the opposite. You're wrong, any honest English teacher would tell yo so, but if it is important for you to be right for once then crack on.

 

[steveninaster1]

The ability to learn in different countries varies, so there's nothing to preclude individual exchange programmes. Youth unemployment is still high across Europe, and any drop could be a consequence of people leaving, rather than an upturn in employment.

If that were true then you would expect an upturn in our youth unemployment and other countries with low youth unemployment, yet ours is down from 22% in 2011. Greece is often a quoted for having 50% youth unemployment but it has dropped 10% in three years and there is little sign of this trend changing.
The ability to study without paying foreign student fees is a definite plus of the EEA.

 

[FosseFilberto]

What an appalling attitude.

Why surprise surprise? That's a sweeping slur on the youth of this nation. Your solution seems to be to discard them, and pay them benefits to do nothing, while at the same time, adding to the loss of assets in countries that are struggling. Instead, perhaps we should look at why the youth won't work for you.

I know several companies that take on modern apprentices, who work extremely hard for a pittance for the hope of a long term job. Perhaps the youth you're talking of don't want to work in such a pompous, arrogant environment.

... with you 100% on that ... they should get off their arses and contribute before they are allowed to draw benefits ... no signing on straight from school ... community work if no paid work ... see there is common ground after all.

As for discarding them ... the jobs are there ... nobody has discarded them ... many have made a life choice to 'discard' themselves from actively contributing to society ... as to why they won't work? ... easy that one ... because they are idle ... the differential between doing an honest days work for a 'living wage' is not, for many, sufficient for them to be 'bothered' ... there is a real difference in migrants ... they will take a job with a view to progression, either through that employment or looking for different employment WHILST they are working - afirst foot on the ladder ... contrary to populat myth they are not all copper theives ... I won't over generalise but all too often the British attituted is "I want it now" ...

 

[Fez]

... the company I work for is one of the largest employers in the UK ... we have plenty of 'opportunities' ... but British youth isn't that interested in filling them ... surprise surprise ... hence whole shifts are more or less completely manned by European, African and Asian immigrants ... that is the reality ... the ease of welfare state support has led to generations of British gamer sloths that won't work for a living but will be ******** if they are going to share the same benefits with people from overseas ... because they are OUR benefits ...

I totally understand your point, but, just for clarity, do you think it is the same youth who voted for Remain and whinged about the older generations robbing them of their future? I don't expect you to have the answer, as I haven't, just interested in your view.

 

[NSIS]

I can't alter what you replied to BobbyD, you might of thought you were referring to someone else, but the way in which you phrased it did not make it in any way clear, quite the opposite. You're wrong, any honest English teacher would tell yo so, but if it is important for you to be right for once then crack on.

Ok, whatever!

As I say, only one person didn't seem to realise who I was referring to - you!

 

[DMD]

... with you 100% on that ... they should get off their arses and contribute before they are allowed to draw benefits ... no signing on straight from school ... community work if no paid work ... see there is common ground after all.

As for discarding them ... the jobs are there ... nobody has discarded them ... many have made a life choice to 'discard' themselves from actively contributing to society ... as to why they won't work? ... easy that one ... because they are idle ... the differential between doing an honest days work for a 'living wage' is not, for many, sufficient for them to be 'bothered' ... there is a real difference in migrants ... they will take a job with a view to progression, either through that employment or looking for different employment WHILST they are working - afirst foot on the ladder ... contrary to populat myth they are not all copper theives ... I won't over generalise but all too often the British attituted is "I want it now" ...

You're quick to criticise and abuse today's youth, it could be as well to consider that they didn't create the situation they're in. They're victims of the actions of the generations that preceded them. We were more fortunate an inherited a better system, but that's as much an accident of birth as it is any reflection on the ability of the generation.

Smugly and incorrectly making sweeping an ignorant generalisations is not going to work toward solving it.

 

[FosseFilberto]

I totally understand your point, but, just for clarity, do you think it is the same youth who voted for Remain and whinged about the older generations robbing them of their future? I don't expect you to have the answer, as I haven't, just interested in your view.

On that I honestly have no idea ... I do sincerely believe that the referendum was decided primarily on the immigrant issue ... which for me is incredibly depressing ...

 

[Stan]

I totally understand your point, but, just for clarity, do you think it is the same youth who voted for Remain and whinged about the older generations robbing them of their future? I don't expect you to have the answer, as I haven't, just interested in your view.

They would have been too lazy to vote or they would have voted Leave in the misguided belief that the foreigners would be sent home which would lead to a rise in their own benefit payments.

 

[NSIS]

On that I honestly have no idea ... I do sincerely believe that the referendum was decided primarily on the immigrant issue ... which for me is incredibly depressing ...

Entirely agree, Fosse. It was allowed to take centre stage and was cynically exploited by some of those in the leave campaign.

It has to be a failing of the remain campaign that they allowed that one issue to hijack the debate.

 

[Fez]

Ok, whatever!

As I say, only one person didn't seem to realise who I was referring to - you!

The very small amount of support you got had absolutely nothing to do with the rights and wrongs of it, just the ongoing pettiness some of you seem to thrive in. It's a simple matter of comprehension and how I read it is how BobbyD and you wrote it.

 

[Stan]

On that I honestly have no idea ... I do sincerely believe that the referendum was decided primarily on the immigrant issue ... which for me is incredibly depressing ...

Particularly as it wasn't very relevant to the referendum as evidenced during Boris's TV debate. Anyone who voted Leave because of the immigration issue is a ****ing moron and has been utterly duped.

 

[FosseFilberto]

You're quick to criticise and abuse today's youth, it could be as well to consider that they didn't create the situation they're in. They're victims of the actions of the generations that preceded them. We were more fortunate an inherited a better system, but that's as much an accident of birth as it is any reflection on the ability of the generation.

Smugly and incorrectly making sweeping an ignorant generalisations is not going to work toward solving it.

.. no smugness (or indeed generalisations) ... in my role I have visited some of our very large distribution centres (mainly in central England) and spoken to the managers there (who are predominantly British) .. same stories occur again and again - very few British applicants for the jobs on offer so the shifts get filled with workers from 'abroad' ... another damning fact is that absenteeism is far higher amongst British workers ... .many will jack it in even before a first week is up or be constantly taking the odd day off sick ... the cynic in me can't help but think that this may be related to satisfying job seeker's allowance criteria in some way (but I don't know enough about that) .....

Our graduate programmes get filled with Brits ... no problem there ... but the idea of starting at the bottom and working your way up appears to be alien to large proportions of our youth .. they seem to feel some bizarre 'entitlement' to living life to the full with all the trappings of enjoyment without the need to contribute to society in any way ...

 

[Fez]

They would have been too lazy to vote or they would have voted Leave in the misguided belief that the foreigners would be sent home which would lead to a rise in their own benefit payments.

That's one view, I suppose.

 

[HRH Custard VC]

There are a couple of things that it will be a shame to lose for our most educated youth. The ability to study within the EEA as if you are a national of that country has been used by many to avoid finishing degrees and having large student debts, the Erasmus exchange program has benefits for those looking to work in areas requiring European cooperation. Also our educated youth benefit from European cooperative research projects, something the EU are already refusing to fund if UK nationals are involved and research is expected to last more than 2 years.
The youth unemployment is also not consistent across Europe, ours is 13%, Germany 7%, Netherlands 11% so while some may come here for jobs, our youth can also go abroad to take advantage of other markets. It is also the case that the southern european countries have seen significant drops in unemployment rates over the last 12 months.

You do realise studying in other countries, EU and none EU was going on before the EU became about.
Also this will still happen post exit.

 

[Fez]

Particularly as it wasn't very relevant to the referendum as evidenced during Boris's TV debate. Anyone who voted Leave because of the immigration issue is a ****ing moron and has been utterly duped.

Immigration played a legitimate part, as did many other things.

 

[HRH Custard VC]

.. no smugness (or indeed generalisations) ... in my role I have visited some of our very large distribution centres (mainly in central England) and spoken to the managers there (who are predominantly British) .. same stories occur again and again - very few British applicants for the jobs on offer so the shifts get filled with workers from 'abroad' ... another damning fact is that absenteeism is far higher amongst British workers ... .many will jack it in even before a first week is up or be constantly taking the odd day off sick ... the cynic in me can't help but think that this may be related to satisfying job seeker's allowance criteria in some way (but I don't know enough about that) .....

Our graduate programmes get filled with Brits ... no problem there ... but the idea of starting at the bottom and working your way up appears to be alien to large proportions of our youth .. they seem to feel some bizarre 'entitlement' to living life to the full with all the trappings of enjoyment without the need to contribute to society in any way ...

Maybe the teacher need to educate them better. Nothing is free in this life.
Out of interest what is the jobs offered and are they full time or zero hour contracts?

 

[DMD]

.. no smugness (or indeed generalisations) ... in my role I have visited some of our very large distribution centres (mainly in central England) and spoken to the managers there (who are predominantly British) .. same stories occur again and again - very few British applicants for the jobs on offer so the shifts get filled with workers from 'abroad' ... another damning fact is that absenteeism is far higher amongst British workers ... .many will jack it in even before a first week is up or be constantly taking the odd day off sick ... the cynic in me can't help but think that this may be related to satisfying job seeker's allowance criteria in some way (but I don't know enough about that) .....

Our graduate programmes get filled with Brits ... no problem there ... but the idea of starting at the bottom and working your way up appears to be alien to large proportion of our youth .. they seem to feel some bizarre 'entitlement' to living life to the full with all the trappings of enjoyment without the need to contribute to society in any way ...

And I would argue a fair amount of the responsibility for causing, and therefore resolving it, falls to the generations that created it.

Smugly pointing it out as an issue is as much a part of the problem as the attitudes you mention.

Immigrants were not a major factor in voting trends, border control possibly was, but a feeling of being patronised and disenfranchised was a bigger factor in my view, and that is precisely what you are doing.