Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

Why is it more democratic than the UK?

 

They made a judgement with only proven lies being fed to them by the leave campaign. That is not sensible by a minority of the electorate.

 

People with awareness knew what the long term goal was.
People without awareness know very little and just throw insults.

 

I didn'thear those arguments enough from him. Even if you're right, the fact he didn't make as passionate a plea for it (and we know he is a passionate bloke about many things) showed a lack of leadership. It came across as he was happy to play politics with an important issue. He either A) saw the "blue on blue" fighting and stood back to try and take advantage, or B) wanted to try and placate his shadow cabinet who were pro-EU even though he was lukewarm towards it. The fact that I (and may other labour voters) feel like this is why I've lost faith in him.

I'd rather we had David Milliband right now. The trouble is, we have so few MPs that the pool to choose from is pretty ****e.

Can I just add, I have a great deal of respect for John McDonnell. He helped my parents personally as their MP many years ago and the way he did demonstrated EVERYTHING an MP should be.

 

What lies?

 

Of course MPs should help their constituents but I take issue with the statement that it is everything an MP should be.

 

No not at all. But I think you should take action. Back in the 70's you had politicians turning up to church halls and being heckled by the public. Now they're so far removed, the public voice means **** all. I look at the Iraq war, that was democracy in nothing but name. A load of lies and cajolling used to get a vote through in parliament. Democracy my arse! So people took to the streets and were still ignored.

 

I don't understand why Corbyn should have a strong view on the EU. The two campaigns were non-party. If remaining in or leaving the EU wasn't important to him he is perfectly within his rights to sit it out.

 

£350 million sent to the EU every week that they could spend on the NHS is an obvious one as leave have admitted that it was wrong. Undemocratic EU. Others have already been pointed out so you will have seen them if have followed the thread.

 

Maybe it is one of tone - you say "heckled" - I see that as just ranting loudly and wanting your voice heard more than other people in the room. If you are at a meeting of your MP with members of the public I don't see anything wrong with respectfully expressing your views.

 

Depends what you class as help. Perhaps the use of the word everything was a bit much, but it meant everything to my parents at the time. He went above and beyond what he could have got away with doing tbf.

 

Sorry of this is a daft question, but why are so many MP's supporting Blair?

They can't influence the judgement, so they seemingly presume he's going to be found guilty and want to minimise the punishment, so it can't be on moral grounds. They're ripping the party to shreds, so it can't altogether be on policy, so are they fearful of being caught in any fall out?

 

I think what you say is the whole problem with democracy these days - for everyone in the country from your apoliticals and 1st time voters through to people like you who (I'm making assumptions here) sound like you know your John McDonnells from your Jack Straw's and Nick Cleggs. It's that the press only ever seemed to report the Dave vs Boris battle and you were almost given the impression that it was a Tory only fight. Even Farage's press coverage decreased significantly despite the Express funding his campaign and the fact that he was the original one campaigning for this referendum. I only remember seeing Alan Johnson once on TV and he was head of the Labour Remain campaign, I was talking to the director of my department and even she could only remember hearing him on BBC Radio 4 not on TV. Whilst Boris & Dave where on almost daily.

When you heard Corbyn speak at his rallies or read his interviews he spoke with real passion and real intelligence with sensible and workable solutions to the issues important to [seemingly] many of us. Not just making outrageous lies or saying everything will be ok...

 

I've already admitted that the Leave campaign shouldn't have said that. They have no authority. I think sensible people would realise that. If somebody came to you and said they wanted you to vote for them so the government would spend £350m a week on the NHS, wouldn't you question how they could achieve that if it's not government policy? I think most sensible people would think that there would be £350m a week to spend on what the government of the day decided.

 

I can't understand why so many are supporting him, particularly not Tom Watson and Angela Eagle who were both so glowing about Corbyn only last year. But Blair is definitely part of the establishment and the establishment definitely want to stop Corbyn restore the neo-liberal journey the countries been on for the last 35 years and more than likely bury the Chilcott report as it'll embarrass lots of people and make other wars harder to start.

As you say though win or lose it's political suicide for these MPs

 

I'm sure he did but MPs should play a role in national politics even if it's only by voting.

 

However you do it, it represents public opinion. The trouble is there aren't enough meetings of your MP with members of the public. At best, it's now in a carefully orchestrated TV studio or carefully vetted guests in an organised venue. You don't get MPs in local community halls talking to Jo Public.

A great sign of the times was that life long Jewish chap who was kicked out of a Labour party conference for shouting "rubbish" at something some Labour leader iirc was spouting. They later apoligised to him following the bad press. Bunch of ****ing pricks.

 

Amen to that

 

That doesn't answer the question. £350 million is not sent to the EU every week so that is a lie. Is that hard to understand?

 

I think a lot of people still remember Blair got power for the Labour Party even if a lot of the grass roots hated him.