Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

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How will you vote in the EU referendum ?

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Tobes said:
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Many turkeys that did who are fully engaged in the economic outlook for this country are becoming at the very least, somewhat dubious about their decision, that is what I have found since coming back to the UK on Saturday. The fact that you claim to have encounter not one who feels that way, makes you either a liar or someone who hangs round with people who don't have anything to lose.
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Aye, you know what we all think better than us. <ok>

Talking to a Scot today that had voted remain, and after an initial period of concern, is now settled with how thing are.

You must really hang around with some nervy reactionary types. You're hiding from the reality more than the others that take it for what it is.

I think you're feeling insecure at the realisation that you're actually out of step with the majority in the UK.
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
Nobody knows, and that's the point! And that's why the currency has dropped, why our credit ratings have been slashed. How long this goes on, and where we go from here, all up in the air!...

We have traded a recovering, stable economy for an uncertain period of uncertainty ( I might have plaigerised Donald Rumsfeld there!).
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Yes we have all covered the ground of uncertainty and short term effects on currency, markets and the economy in general. My question is, if we achieve our deal that gives continued access to the common market, which it would appear is the strategy from every Tory that has spoken so far since the referendum, what long term effects do you see this having on our economy, specifically trade? There is a lot of rhetoric about how massively ****ed we now are, but not much reasoning beyond uncertainty. Or is it because people don't believe we will get access to the common market?
 
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Son of Stan said:
So you went for a kebab instead of voting?
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First time I've not voted in years mate. I abstained because I didn't feel I knew enough to make a decision.

I would have gone leave had I voted but hindsight suggests that would have been a mistake because of the backtracking on lies.
 
afcftw said:
Yes we have all covered the ground of uncertainty and short term effects on currency, markets and the economy in general. My question is, if we achieve our deal that gives continued access to the common market, which it would appear is the strategy from every Tory that has spoken so far since the referendum, what long term effects do you see this having on our economy, specifically trade? There is a lot of rhetoric about how massively ****ed we now are, but not much reasoning beyond uncertainty. Or is it because people don't believe we will get access to the common market?
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Nigel won't like it, not one bit. And neither will many of your fellow leave voters.

Merkel has stressed 'no free trade without free movement' so that's the immigration point out of the window! Which, as I've said, is going to leave many leave voters wondering why they bothered!

IF we get a free trade deal with Europe, and it's only an if as there will be a price attached, then hopefully we won't suffer as much as we otherwise would.

How badly the economy is damaged will depend on what deals can be done and how quickly they can be done. However, it really is a matter of how much damage and for how long.
 
Belgiuminho said:
First time I've not voted in years mate. I abstained because I didn't feel I knew enough to make a decision.

I would have gone leave had I voted but hindsight suggests that would have been a mistake because of the backtracking on lies.
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... and yet you support 'Pool ... not knowing enough about football to make a sensible decision?... :)
 
Belgiuminho said:
First time I've not voted in years mate. I abstained because I didn't feel I knew enough to make a decision.

I would have gone leave had I voted but hindsight suggests that would have been a mistake because of the backtracking on lies.
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Congratulations on being too lazy to do a bit of research.
 
afcftw said:
Yes we have all covered the ground of uncertainty and short term effects on currency, markets and the economy in general. My question is, if we achieve our deal that gives continued access to the common market, which it would appear is the strategy from every Tory that has spoken so far since the referendum, what long term effects do you see this having on our economy, specifically trade? There is a lot of rhetoric about how massively ****ed we now are, but not much reasoning beyond uncertainty. Or is it because people don't believe we will get access to the common market?
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This might pose a problem squaring that with "controlling our borders"...

The four freedoms
The EU rules on free movement of persons form one pillar of the so-called ‘four freedoms’ (the free movement of goods, services and capital being the other three). Together these four freedoms make up the ‘single’ or ‘common’ market.
 
i have met a few out voters who now regret their actions, they never expected the melt down and the chaos it has caused so far and the reality is that we are still members of the EU today. Im no Tory by any stretch of the imagination but i felt embarrassed for Cameron today having to sit through that drivel of a schoolboys speech by farage. He and every single party leader of every persuasion wants to stay friends with our European cousins and my hope is this will be reversed in parliament and because the vote is an advisory vote only until it gets past by parliament then it can be ignored for the good of the country and safeguard the future for our kids and future generations to come.....We are much better off by a country mile being in with our partners than trying to go into the Unknown (Boris words) on our own and risking everything. The government must hold a free vote by all MP's on whether to listen to the advice from its members who quite frankly wont know anything that coming out really means and totally ignore the advice and remain in the EU where we are safe and can work with our European partners on reforming the European parliament better than what it is....this is the better way of doing things......
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
Nigel won't like it, not one bit. And neither will many of your fellow leave voters.

Merkel has stressed 'no free trade without free movement' so that's the immigration point out of the window! Which, as I've said, is going to leave many leave voters wondering why they bothered!

IF we get a free trade deal with Europe, and it's only an if as there will be a price attached, then hopefully we won't suffer as much as we otherwise would.

How badly the economy is damaged will depend on what deals can be done and how quickly they can be done. However, it really is a matter of how much damage and for how long.
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I completely agree RE free movement and it's something I said repeatedly before the referendum vote.

I also agree short term it's about how long the uncertainty persists and how deep that cuts.

But as you've conceded, if we get continued access to the common market there won't be any significant tragedy of the economy in the long term and in fact with more freedom to negotiate trade deals outside of the common market it stands to reason that we have the potential to do better over the long term. I appreciate it isn't a done deal, but I strongly feel that we will get continued access to the common market and that seems to be the key point for all of the Tory MPs who have so far spoken about what comes next.
 
afcftw said:
Question for everyone who keeps going on about how the economy will now be catastrophically ****ed: since it seems clear whoever ends up the next leader of the Tory party will attempt to negotiate a deal giving continued access to the common market, how is it that you think long term this is going to ruin our economy? We all know what the possible short term effects are driven by uncertainty, but medium-long term in terms of trade, how do you think we will be negatively effected?
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A good question mate.

There are many variables here. Firstly the deal that is struck, if the insistence is that freedom of movement is excluded, then that'll leave us with a tariff that far out weighs our current payment to the EU - without doubt - and the deal itself will take ****ing years to conclude.

In the interim and then post an agreement being agreed, any global company seeking a European base is going to swerve the UK as its preferred choice. As if you're seeking to penetrate the EU market then you'll choose to place yourself within it.

Combine that with the companies who are currently based within the UK who might consider their mere presence here a risk due to the years of uncertainty and the potential damage to their potential growth within the Union, that might come from the mere association.

All of this will lead to us being on the outside looking in, we'll be an isolated island on the periphery of the EU landmass, with what exactly to attract external investment? What's the draw? Where's the advantage in staying here for a global business? Therefore how does any of this lead to an expanding economy?

Add to that the simple fact that the vast majority of our economic development projects in this country has been funded by EU funds for a generation, where's the cash coming from to continue that within a shrinking economy who's public purse will be reduced? It's therefore a fair assumption that it'll simply cease.

That's before we get onto the University research projects that spin off into innovation and thus economic development, that have virtually ALL, been funded by EU funds. All of which will simply disappear.

The entire spectrum of economic growth and development will be damaged and restricted in the short to medium term. Beyond that, I don't see where the growth in GDP is going to come from to undo the damage caused, and re-create what we already have in place.
 
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Treble said:
This might pose a problem squaring that with "controlling our borders"...

The four freedoms
The EU rules on free movement of persons form one pillar of the so-called ‘four freedoms’ (the free movement of goods, services and capital being the other three). Together these four freedoms make up the ‘single’ or ‘common’ market.
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Yes but quite obviously the people negotiating aren't going to choose to **** off the economy to keep out the immigrants... They aren't that stupid! And all of the Tory MPs who have spoken so far have said access to the common market will be the most important thing and they recognise there will be compromises attached to it. Yes some racists are going to be unhappy, but that's how it will go.
 
pieguts said:
With these constant jibes Stan, I'm beginning to think that you are no better than the "leave" voters who you have mocked and insulted since the result of the vote became known.
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It was a daft question so it got a daft answer.
 
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