you did say this
most fans know more about football than them cliched idiots anyway.
England Euro 2012 thread.
- Thread starter notsosmartspur
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you did say this
most fans know more about football than them cliched idiots anyway.
They did PNP but they are not the future are they? Walker should be a shoe in.
Terry was very good but he is the past, Cole is now past his best and appears to have lost his pace on the wing. I think we need to move on.
I thought Parker was very average. When he did stray forward his final pass was poor.
Carroll showed up well but had to play to deep because of our lack of possession.
Rooney , Young never deserved their starting places.
Welback was OK but as a team we deserved nothing more than 1/4 final.
Carroll showed up well but had to play to deep because of our lack of possession.
Rooney , Young never deserved their starting places.
Welback was OK but as a team we deserved nothing more than 1/4 final.
England wil never win anything until the set up is revolutionised..but them twats at the FA will never do that..we go in every tournament thinking we are the worlds elite...so try to strut our stuff..but we dont have any stuff.
Whilst you get teams like Poland,Greece,Czechs,Russia...who i would say on paper are not as good as te England team..but they know there strengths and apply them...and they have known their limitations for years that they have turned them into strengths.
The English cant and wont do this ,they are far too arrogant..and in the meantime the lesser nations outdo,overtake and out perform the England team.
got to start from scratch with a new young squad..first step....but it wont ever happen.
Germany knew their squad was aging after Euro 2008..a proud nation..a very very good history..yet they started from scratch almost..kept a few experienced heads then allowed the youngsters to mature over the years and supporting, not expecting much from their team in the 2010WC...and the result is the dynamic team we have seen in this Euro..and they look good for years to come.
England kind of showed a glimpse of this revolution...but it could have been even better and stronger if a few had slightly bigger balls.
Almost a bit like what is happening at Spurs...and that is another clarification as to why i back Levy and his fresh approach to bring back a bit of zest into things at our club.
Parker put in a huge effort IMO the number of stopping challenges he made. I think we were looking for Gerrard to spark the attacks but, and the only criticism I have of Hart, is all the long balls out. I assume that was orders, but we turned in to one trick ponys looking for Carrols head to knock down for Rooney to lose. Our midfield were bypassed, which is a pity when we had shown in the first half that we could walk through a distinctly average Italian defence.
I think that "playing Rooney on the basis that next time it will work better" is this generations "playing Gerrard and Lampard in the same team". Nobody has the balls to recognise that it isn't going to work. You need one forward to hold it up and hopefully score (who is not Rooney) and more players in midfield. Two strikers isn't going to work because the midfield two doesn't stand a chance, unless one of them can play in between midfield and attack and Rooney has again shown he's not up to it.
The only manager who had the balls to do something controversial was years ago now when Hoddle left Gazza behind, and he got slated for it. No manager would have the guts to do something similar with Rooney as they'd be crucified by the media, and after tournament elimination, claimed that they got it wrong in the first place, forgetting that we didn't win anything *with* Rooney (aren't our media wonderful!) NB that's four goals (including the tap in) for Rooney in 21 games. Mind you all this talk about Rooney is glossing over the "performance" of Young which might have been one of the worst international performances I've ever seen... although you can bet he'll get the same rating or higher than Parker in tomorrows papers.
The only manager who had the balls to do something controversial was years ago now when Hoddle left Gazza behind, and he got slated for it. No manager would have the guts to do something similar with Rooney as they'd be crucified by the media, and after tournament elimination, claimed that they got it wrong in the first place, forgetting that we didn't win anything *with* Rooney (aren't our media wonderful!) NB that's four goals (including the tap in) for Rooney in 21 games. Mind you all this talk about Rooney is glossing over the "performance" of Young which might have been one of the worst international performances I've ever seen... although you can bet he'll get the same rating or higher than Parker in tomorrows papers.
To be fair, Roy's style could work just as well, if not better with another CM included rather than a tracking back Welbeck.
The conundrum of Rooney's return is what has cost this England team.
i didnt see a fluidity and focus aswell as fire in the last two matches that i saw in the first two.
when it was about England...everyone was playing for the team...as soon as Rooney returned, it became the Rooney show....everyone else just felt like the sideshow.
this mentality will mean England never win anything.
The Germans are not afraid to leave Gomez out.
Spain are not afraid to leave Toress out.
Italy manager wasnt wasting anytime taking Balotelli off in his first match due to his pathetic display.
and the Portugal gaffer does not play to Ronaldo's strengths but makes him adjust his game to suit the Portugese set up and thinking.
these are big shouts.
England's big shout was the Rooney return issue...and we bow down to our golden boy.
i didnt see a fluidity and focus aswell as fire in the last two matches that i saw in the first two.
when it was about England...everyone was playing for the team...as soon as Rooney returned, it became the Rooney show....everyone else just felt like the sideshow.
this mentality will mean England never win anything.
The Germans are not afraid to leave Gomez out.
Spain are not afraid to leave Toress out.
Italy manager wasnt wasting anytime taking Balotelli off in his first match due to his pathetic display.
and the Portugal gaffer does not play to Ronaldo's strengths but makes him adjust his game to suit the Portugese set up and thinking.
these are big shouts.
England's big shout was the Rooney return issue...and we bow down to our golden boy.
Autocorrect on the iPhone, NSIS?
I thought Rooney was unlucky tonight. Poor, but unlucky. Got no decent service at all because Parker and gerrard struggled to deal with the Italy midfield.
What was going on with our defence? We seemed to forget what the offside trap was tonight.
iPad. But yeah, ****ing thing drives me nuts at times - talk about mind of it's own!..maybe I'll switch it off.
I think that the idea of the two in central midfield was to attack their full backs out wide. But with Young and Milner out on the wings, it never happened. Also, I believe Rooney was supposed to be picking up Pirlo in his area of the pitch. That went well then, didn't it?
The only reason that Young and Rooney remained on the pitch must have been that they were designated penalty takers. Mr Woy was prepared to sacrifice Wellbeck and Milner in order to keep Ashley 'give the ball away' Young and Wayne 'no need to tackle me, I'll trip over the ball anyway' Rooney on the pitch. Our only chance departed with those substitutions. I've been Milners biggest critic during this tournament but last night he put in a bloody good shift.
We went from playing 9 against 11 to well.....9 against 11. Alternatively, Woy had money on with the Italian bookies, he's got previous over there hasn't he? Speaks the lingo and all that.
I agree with those who say cleanout, out should go Cole, Gerrard, Terry, Downing, Rooney, Carroll, Young and probably a few more as well. Jesus Christ, we got beaten by a team playing a Wet Spam reject!!! Not good enough for Wet Spam but good enough to beat England.....
We went from playing 9 against 11 to well.....9 against 11. Alternatively, Woy had money on with the Italian bookies, he's got previous over there hasn't he? Speaks the lingo and all that.
I agree with those who say cleanout, out should go Cole, Gerrard, Terry, Downing, Rooney, Carroll, Young and probably a few more as well. Jesus Christ, we got beaten by a team playing a Wet Spam reject!!! Not good enough for Wet Spam but good enough to beat England.....
TalkCrap, with stunning lack of surprise, declare this morning that Rooney was not fit.
Not fit to wear an England shirt yes, but that's not what they mean.
So many pundits and alleged professionals are Rooney apologists, I just don't get it. On one hand they talk about changing things, on the other they refuse to criticise one of the worst culprits. You could argue *the* worst considering how much the England team turned into the Rooney show when he became available. As if we are forgetting why he was unavailable, or are we saying he had a good competition because he didn't get sent off? I think it was a cunning plan by UEFA changing the three match ban to two (why did they do that by the way, there isn't a precedent for it), because they knew how much he would bugger up the team. OK the last sentence wasn't serious, but can anyone argue that Rooney coming back improved the team? It made it worse, and now a lot of people will concentrate on that, forgetting about a few other disaster performances.
There will be changes, but superficial and not attacking the root of the problem. You may find people like Parker will be sacrificed in favour of more "flair" players, because they are more likely to meet the pundits new love word "technical ability". Next tournament we will again fail and someone will suggest we need more "stability in midifield"! If we don't have players with the same ability (and it's not that clear cut, by accident of birth Bale is Welsh but how much different would he make England? This isn't an excuse, just pointing out that here is a player that came through the same system as the rest of them) then we shouldn't attempt to be poor versions of those teams. We should play to our strengths. We need more players like Parker not less! There is simply a feeling that is completely without foundation that the best team has to have the best players in it, so all sorts of compromises are made in order to fit them in. It's never worked and never will. But no manager has the guts to do otherwise... as I said last night, the only manager that made such a hard decision was Hoddle leaving out Gazza, which was ages ago and didn't go down well did it.
Not fit to wear an England shirt yes, but that's not what they mean.
So many pundits and alleged professionals are Rooney apologists, I just don't get it. On one hand they talk about changing things, on the other they refuse to criticise one of the worst culprits. You could argue *the* worst considering how much the England team turned into the Rooney show when he became available. As if we are forgetting why he was unavailable, or are we saying he had a good competition because he didn't get sent off? I think it was a cunning plan by UEFA changing the three match ban to two (why did they do that by the way, there isn't a precedent for it), because they knew how much he would bugger up the team. OK the last sentence wasn't serious, but can anyone argue that Rooney coming back improved the team? It made it worse, and now a lot of people will concentrate on that, forgetting about a few other disaster performances.
There will be changes, but superficial and not attacking the root of the problem. You may find people like Parker will be sacrificed in favour of more "flair" players, because they are more likely to meet the pundits new love word "technical ability". Next tournament we will again fail and someone will suggest we need more "stability in midifield"! If we don't have players with the same ability (and it's not that clear cut, by accident of birth Bale is Welsh but how much different would he make England? This isn't an excuse, just pointing out that here is a player that came through the same system as the rest of them) then we shouldn't attempt to be poor versions of those teams. We should play to our strengths. We need more players like Parker not less! There is simply a feeling that is completely without foundation that the best team has to have the best players in it, so all sorts of compromises are made in order to fit them in. It's never worked and never will. But no manager has the guts to do otherwise... as I said last night, the only manager that made such a hard decision was Hoddle leaving out Gazza, which was ages ago and didn't go down well did it.
All the plaudits that Germany are getting at the moment does overlook one problem: they kept on too many players for too long in the 90's. After a raft of retirements after the '98 World Cup, they were utterly dire in Euro 2000, and the first stage of the current German squad came in the 2002 World Cup, with the likes of Klose, Metzelder, Ballack, Frings and Schneider coming into the squad to provide a solid base, which the likes of Lahm and Schweinsteiger joined four years later.
Italy have the same problem, as a lot of the squad from the 2002 World Cup was present in South Africa, and the current team does look like a work in progress - the next Pirlo has yet to be uncovered, none of their centre backs are as imperious as Cannavaro or Nesta or Baresi, and up front they don't have a either striker who can create one half chance and put it away like Del Piero or Roberto Baggio, or someone who can bang them in when required like Vieri.
As for England, the fact is the same old problems repeat themselves, just the names change. The idea we can't win without Rooney is the new idea we couldn't win without Michael Owen. Ashley Young has replaced Steve McManaman as the player who starts games but you can't quite see why. Joe Hart is saving the team's bacon more often than not like Shilton and Seaman were doing for years. Heck, even in the same team you can interchange Gerrard and Rooney's names when talking about players dropping far too deep.
England never have any form of long-term planning, they just have a large packet of sticking plasters to cover the cracks that have been visible to the world since Euro '92.
Italy have the same problem, as a lot of the squad from the 2002 World Cup was present in South Africa, and the current team does look like a work in progress - the next Pirlo has yet to be uncovered, none of their centre backs are as imperious as Cannavaro or Nesta or Baresi, and up front they don't have a either striker who can create one half chance and put it away like Del Piero or Roberto Baggio, or someone who can bang them in when required like Vieri.
As for England, the fact is the same old problems repeat themselves, just the names change. The idea we can't win without Rooney is the new idea we couldn't win without Michael Owen. Ashley Young has replaced Steve McManaman as the player who starts games but you can't quite see why. Joe Hart is saving the team's bacon more often than not like Shilton and Seaman were doing for years. Heck, even in the same team you can interchange Gerrard and Rooney's names when talking about players dropping far too deep.
England never have any form of long-term planning, they just have a large packet of sticking plasters to cover the cracks that have been visible to the world since Euro '92.
England suffer from the same problem that many Premier League teams do, I think.
They're not willing to take a couple of steps backwards in order to progress.
It takes a brave manager to say that his side basically won't compete for a few years, while everything gets sorted.
With the press in this country and the idiots running the FA, he'd probably get the boot before his plans reached fruition.
The so-called Golden Generation should be put out to pasture and some sacred cows need to be put down.
I'm still not convinced that the manager's even allowed to leave certain players out, due to pressure from sponsors, to be honest.
Sounds a bit tinfoil hat, I know, but would it surprise you?
They're not willing to take a couple of steps backwards in order to progress.
It takes a brave manager to say that his side basically won't compete for a few years, while everything gets sorted.
With the press in this country and the idiots running the FA, he'd probably get the boot before his plans reached fruition.
The so-called Golden Generation should be put out to pasture and some sacred cows need to be put down.
I'm still not convinced that the manager's even allowed to leave certain players out, due to pressure from sponsors, to be honest.
Sounds a bit tinfoil hat, I know, but would it surprise you?
I think that the German style is the way to go.
The pace and movement would require less of a culture shift than that of the Spanish game, for example.
The pace and movement would require less of a culture shift than that of the Spanish game, for example.
I think Stoke is the way to go for any England team....the last time England played anything resembling this German team was in 96...and i put that down to England being at home...just like the Poles looked very exciting until they flopped in this Euro.
It's baffling that certain players always get left out - Richards, Lennon, Sturridge, Huddlestone - with no real reason given. And as for calling up Martin Kelly, what was the point of that? There was plenty of options at right back with Johnson, Jagielka and Jones, so it was a waste of a place in the squad that could have been filled with...well, I'm sure everyone can list three players that would've made more sense.