I can understand what a fine line it is but if Hodgson said in the way that is alleged, then it seems to me that it is just that, a mere mention. didn't even Collymore say he couldn't understand how it was possible for anyone to misconstrue what was said? I'm not on here to stoke the fires Stroller and I'm certainly not one for racism in any form but this does seem a bit of a stormy teacup to me.
Fair enough, Chaz, you're right, it should never have become an issue. Hodgson was innocent, but stupid. How though can Collymore, or anyone else who wasn't there, pronounce on whether someone who was there should be offended or not?
Well gotta say i have read some **** threads, but this has to be one of the worst. Flyer- when was the last time you saw a white monkey? Roy, is to stupid to be racist, but as husky says. it shows what was accepted as the norm in times gone past Col- superb post. I couldnt give a toss about the rest, only that HR has got us winning and playing well. Flyer & some others, how will you as a white person ever understand the true feelings, emotions, thoughts, history etc concerned when it comes to racism. Some of us see it every day without you even noticing. And im only mixed race. Because you have coloured friends?....yeah right..that makes you ok !! Some people do take offence to being called coloured (not me personally), chinky etc. is it acceptable to call you "honky" because that was done in the past? The ignorance of some knows no bounds....
I think that's a fair comment. There's no equivalence to being called a white cu*t for example as opposed to a black cu*t, simply because blacks didn't subjugate, enslave and terrorize whites historically. It was entirely one-sided. Therefore, it goes that its not so much the actual words that are said but rather the intent behind them. My angle on this one and the Ferdinand one in the past is that considering we're talking about a football dressing room/pitch where its a bunch of testosterone fueled blokes (although nowadays they're more pansies than anything else) as opposed to an office full of computer geeks, certain things will inevitably be said and you have to be tough enough to deal with them. Its all about context. You couldn't, for example, compare a military training camp to a junior school for 4-8 year olds. Two entirely different fields of work requiring very different types of people. In one you need to be tough or you'll be turfed out. The other you need to be a sensitive person with a love for children (providing you're not a Catholic priest) or you wouldn't be suitable. Having said all that, I still don't understand the joke or what the fu*k he was trying to say to Townsend. If there's racism, or indeed a joke, in there at all, I sure as hell can't find it.
I think the bottom line here is he was trying to make Chris Smalling realise that he needed to get the ball to Townsend at every opportunity and told this joke to emphasise the point. Anyone in these politically correct times who tells a joke about a monkey in relation to black or mixed race people, however innocently, is making a rod for their own back. It was just poor judgement. Having said that, we've just qualified for the World Cup and, as usual, our wonderful press are itching to undermine the team in any way possible as they usually do and this was an open goal...
You have the advantage then - according to the forum rules I'm not allowed to say what I think you are...
The JT / AF situation (yes - it wasn't just 'the Ferdinand' matter Swords) was completely different. That was deliberate racially aggravated abusive language spoken in anger. This was a throwaway 'joke' where, whilst he really should have known better, there was certainly no offence intended and none taken. However, someone in that dressing room thought it warranted sharing, and as such who's to say no offence was given? Until we know who reported it and why, nobody can say. I would say that Hodgson's 'joke' was ill-advised, and had he thought about it at all, he wouldn't have told it. Is Hodgson racist? No, I don't think so - he's just old-school. Is that an excuse if any offence was given? No, and the apology was warranted, immediately given, and all sorted. Did he try to lie about it and hide the fact, costing the tax-payer huge sums of money and bringing the game into major disrepute, as JT did? Certainly not. You just carry on with your wumming, Swords. It's a pleasant thought that you don't know when to stop, and it'll be nice around here once you're gone again, and far more enjoyable.
I cannot believe what I am reading on here by some of you. the only person who should have been offended by the joke is Smalling as the point he was making was give the ball to Townsend as he can do things you cant. I am 46 years old and for years I have called naughty/playful kids, my own included "cheeky little monkeys". the fact that football(racist fans) have hijacked the word monkey does that make me racist. It refers to the antics and behaviour that relate to the said animal. So when coaching a group of kids at football and they are being a bit rowdy and I call them cheeky monkeys, should I expect to be hauled in front of the PC brigade if some of my players are black. Lets get some context. I am white and never have or will be racist. I have seen racism of the worst kind when playing football and it sickens me. I dont have to be black to know when i see it and that its wrong. The way to tackle it is to confront it when you see and to trivialise racism the way it has been by some on here is reckless.
I agree with much of what you say. However (relating to the bit I have bolded) in this day and age, it would be far too easy for you to be overheard (or one of your players to mention it at home) and if that happened, you probably would be asked to explain your comments, which could have an effect on your ability to coach at that level. Not saying it's right, but this is the society we live in today...
Willy, unless I've missed something I don't think that you and Swords are too far from agreeing with each other. I certainly agree with your above post - apart from the last sentence.
Its not right! It cheapens the real problems. I would happily explain my comments. The only way we change racism in society is to confront it when we see it. If the anti racism campaigners allianate its supporters like me by the way the seem to stick their hand up and cry offside before hearing all the facts, then they run the risk of having less not more support by the balanced fair minded people of this country
Swords is just posting stuff to garner a reaction, and he knows just what to say to some of us - me included - to get the biggest reaction. Ignoring him simply makes him believe he's won, and I'm not giving him the gratification he's seeking on issues like this. I still say that for a lot of people, this is a better board when he's not around - when you can post stuff without fear that he's going to go on the offensive yet again.
Why are you getting so personal? Its just a debate. Everyone else can have a disagreement without slinging insults. You're being very childish. Well I'm sorry you can't control yourself. Not my problem. Again, very childish.
and yet again with the deflection behaviors. Swords, you're so very predictable. This is yet another of your common practices. You're getting dull now. And if you can point to a post on this thread where I have in any way been personally abusive to you, please do so. Stating that I am not going to post an opinion is hardly being abusive, is it? Unless you think you nkow what my opinion is, in which case there's something for you to ponder...
Stan Collymore of all people said the same thing. At least that black lawyer group didnt get their name in the media.
