Does anyone else feel the same?

[PapaWaigo]

Firstly, I want to make it known that I am aware I will likely get shot down for this thread. It is something I have thought about for a while and is irrespective of on the pitch results. People may say I'm a bed wetter and not a loyal fan etc etc. However, this is a forum intended for discussion and I'd like to know what others think.

Ultimately the question is, have the club neglected the psychological effect that selling our best players every year has on the fans? I have been a Saints fan since birth and always will be. However, I'm finding it difficult to relate to the team, knowing that next year another 2 of our best players will be sold, replaced by another couple of cheap, foreign imports and the cycle continues.

I understand that we can't keep everyone, not even United can when Barcelona and Real Madrid come calling. However, i'd like to see us try and put up a bit more of fight. I feel that we have now set a precedent where the 'big clubs' can have whoever they like and our players know it. Everton are undoubtedly a bigger club than us but are also one who will never get Champions League. This raiding of players doesn't happen to them every season (though they did lose Rooney and will likely lose Stones). Surely the increase in Sky money and the fact that we have sold approx. £100m worth of players could allow us to adjust our wage structure? Lets face it, footballers only look at the pay packet.

We are victims of our own success and it is frustrating knowing that should Wanyama and Mane have a good season, they will be off next year too. Players that I loved and idolised coming up through the leagues like Rickie, Lallana & Morgan are long gone. I know that we support the club and not the players but it feels difficult with the annual merry-go-round. The emotion I feel for the club is not replicated one bit by the players. I suppose that this is the way football is now and we have to accept it.

Does anyone else feel the same?

A rubbish Saints fan

 

[King Grimlock]

I don't think it makes you a rubbish fan, at the moment we're in a strange place as a club in that were good enough to get 6th -8th in the league and on our day trouble the big teams but for the time being we can't compete on a financial basis with probably half the league. This means we are very attractive to players that want to be seen and move on to "bigger" clubs as we make a good shop window I think it will change eventually but for the next few seasons this will be the cycle.

 

[Velcro Roy]

Firstly, I want to make it known that I am aware I will get shot down for this thread. It is something I have thought about for a while and is irrespective of on the pitch results. People will say I'm a bed wetter and not a loyal fan etc etc. However, this is a forum intended for discussion and I'd like to know what others think.

Ultimately the question is, have the club neglected the physiological effect that selling our best players every year has on the fans? I have been a Saints fan since birth and always will be. However, I'm finding it difficult to relate to the team, knowing that next year another 2 of our best players will be sold, replaced by another couple of cheap, foreign imports and the cycle continues.

I understand that we can't keep everyone, not even United can when Barcelona and Real Madrid come calling. However, i'd like to see us try and put up a bit more of fight. I feel that we have now set a precedent where the 'big clubs' can have whoever they like and our players know it. Everton are undoubtedly a bigger club than us but are also one who will never get Champions League. This raiding of players doesn't happen to them every season (though they did lose Rooney and will likely lose Stones). Surely the increase in Sky money and the fact that we have sold approx. £100m worth of players could allow us to adjust our wage structure? Lets face it, footballers only look at the pay packet.

We are victims of our own success and it is frustrating knowing that should Wanyama and Mane have a good season, they will be off next year too. Players that I loved and idolised coming up through the leagues like Rickie, Lallana & Morgan are long gone. I know that we support the club and not the players but it feels difficult with the annual merry-go-round. The emotion I feel for the club is not replicated one bit by the players. I suppose that this is the way football is now and we have to accept it. Maybe I'm just not cut out for modern football.

Does anyone else feel the same?

A rubbish Saints fan.

Blimey, not sure you'll need to worry in a couple of years as the current crop are less likely to attract attention IMO.

By the way you aren't a rubbish saints fan-they support Pompey.

 

[Saint Sosa]

I don't think it makes you a rubbish fan, at the moment we're in a strange place as a club in that were good enough to get 6th -8th in the league and on our day trouble the big teams but for the time being we can't compete on a financial basis with probably half the league. This means we are very attractive to players that want to be seen and move on to "bigger" clubs as we make a good shop window I think it will change eventually but for the next few seasons this will be the cycle.

We can compete pretty much any club with the exception of the big 6 + Newcastle & maybe Everton, the fact is we're choosing not to compete with them financially as sustainability is the word around town.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I hear what you're saying, and we are perhaps setting an iffy precedent in the way we're operating...but I think the fault in some senses lies more with the players than necessarily the club. Players have the capacity to turn round and say "no, I'm earning a good wage and I'm happy here. I want to stay". Sadly that seems beyond the majority though.

 

[Velcro Roy]

We can compete pretty much any club with the exception of the big 6 + Newcastle & maybe Everton, the fact is we're choosing not to compete with them financially as sustainability is the word around town.

Take out those eight clubs and we are competing surely.

 

[......loading......]

I wonder if we should also try to remember that ALL of these big name players who have left were brought in under another regime. That regime still serves as a blight on this one as it put unrealistic expectations in players' heads and created an entitlement culture. On the other hand, that regime also brought in high calibre players - higher than you can expect to bring with "realistic expectations". The thread about a 2015 hangover was actually a year out. Aren't we still suffering a 2014 hangover?

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Remember as well when we're talking about clubs like Everton, they shelled out £28m on Lukaku....we're not at that level (be that through means or design). Also, other than RL, who else would top teams covet in their squad - Baines (injured, constant rumours), Stones (perhaps going), Barkley (rumours but a born Evertonian and would be an astronomic price because he's British) and at a stretch Coleman. They're not immune to what we're going through and their prize asset/flavour of the month Stones will likely be off.

I don't see anyone in the Newcastle squad that would overly excite the big teams other than possibly Wijnaldum and Sissoko, and I suspect they might be off next summer if they continue to impress. West Ham? Nah, nothing there that a top four would necessarily want. Villa similar.

The anomaly is perhaps Swansea, but if they have a good season, expect the bids to flow and the media to focus on them.

 

[RSS]

It's frustrating. I know theres no points in ifs. But, if we were in a position where we kept last seasons team together And then bulked it out this summer (as we have), we'd genuinely have a shot at top 4 and winning cups. As it is, we have to rebuild every season, replacing fantastic players with players that we hope will develop into fantastic players. That's the way it is, and it is frustrating because we were so close last season. Next season we're likely to sell Mane, Wanyama and possibly JRod and Fonte. It get's tiresome and it's frustrating but I understand that that's the position we're in as a smaller team trying to break into the party with the big boys.

 

[Onionman]

It is indeed a problem but I think fans would be a great deal happier if they realised that it's (a) caused by success and (b) shrinking over time. Addressing these individually:

It's caused by success: we're in the Premier League, the biggest showcase inthe world. The top six teams have a basic requirement that's set by their fans, which is to buy players who are already proven and have high profiles. That means that they aren't buying from lower and/or foreign divisions and taking risks. Their boards aren't interested and their fans won't accept it. So they look to teams like us to take those players on and develop them into players of quality and profile. If we didn't they wouldn't be interested. The solution here would be to drop into the Championship or bump around the bottom of the Premier League.

It's shrinking over time: It might feel different but the pool of teams who can buy from us is shrinking. A couple of years ago we feared losing Rickie to West Ham. Can you even imagine that now? Would anyone ever now leave us (voluntarily, that is, not someone we're actively trying to sell) for West Ham? The list of teams poaching our players is smaller than ever.

Player greed affects every club with another one higher in the food chain. We gain from it as much as we lose from it but it's going to happen less if we can keep up our progress. I think Spurs are dropping out of the list of teams to whom we're going to lose players (Toby notwithstanding) so we're getting down to five in the UK.

Vin

 

[PapaWaigo]

I hear what you're saying, and we are perhaps setting an iffy precedent in the way we're operating...but I think the fault in some senses lies more with the players than necessarily the club. Players have the capacity to turn round and say "no, I'm earning a good wage and I'm happy here. I want to stay". Sadly that seems beyond the majority though.

Yes you're right, it is down to the players but this is the football environment now. I think that the club need to accept this and possibly adjust the wage structure. I'm not sure that we can continue to challenge for the top 6 when paying bottom 6 wages (I remember seeing a table where we were 14/15th in terms of wages?). I'm not saying pay £100k a week for Chris Samba but surely we can be sensible? Maybe spacedsaint above is right, was regularly challenging for Europe part of the old regimes ambitions? Will the black box keep churning out gems to flog forever?

 

[A Touch of Clas]

If you look at Everton, they have a squad with lots of players who didn't make it at the top clubs or were let go by them. Howard, Cleverly, Barry, Lukaku, Gibson, Pienaar, Deulofeu etc and it's rare that those clubs by those players back. Yes there are those who they have held onto such as Baines, Coleman and Mirallas, but their stand out players (Rooney, Lescott and more than likely Barkley and Stones) will be sold to the bigger teams. They are also ahead of us in that they've made the Europa League virtually every season in recent years and been able to keep the Mirallas type player from leaving.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I am sorry if you think you will get shot down for voicing what many people have said. You have an absolute right to say whatever you want (within the rules) on this forum, but you have to accept that some will disagree with you. You have a very good point, and people of my generation certainly miss the days of one-club players like Terry Paine and Matt Le Tiss. Personally, I don't think the situation is as bad as it may seem, for several reasons:

1. The relationship between clubs, players, and fans has been changing for decades, but the invention of the Premier League and the vast amounts of TV money meant that fans are now regarded as "customers" by all clubs, not just Saints. I think Southampton are actually a bit better than a lot of clubs at communicating with supporters. Maybe not the best, but definitely not the worst.
2. Players have always come and gone, but I agree there is a pattern emerging which means that most players who we take on and improve will leave after a period of time. I think what we have to as fans is recognise that this is part of the business model which has evolved within the club, and which means that we are slowly increasing our turnover year on year so that we have a shot at competing with the big clubs on the pitch. You may not like it, and neither do I, but that is what has happened to football globally. Players always list the reasons for moving on as one or more of "playing for my country"; "playing Champions League football"; "playing with the best players" etc., etc., but the true reason is usually money. So we have to increase our income in order to afford a wage structure which competes with the likes of Tottenham and Everton at first.
3. I still believe that the long-term aim of the club is to bring through more and more players from the Academy into the first team. It may be the case that we can feel there is more loyalty from these players, if our results on the pitch are competing with the top teams, together with runs in the Europa, or even the Champions League, and we can offer Academy graduates a decent long-term contract.

I realise that all sounds very hard-nosed and businesslike, and I hate the fact that football has changed so much. But take yourself back to when one of my heroes of the day, Martin Chivers, was sold for a British record fee to Tottenham, something which broke my heart at the time, and ask yourself whether much has changed at all?

 

[King Grimlock]

We can compete pretty much any club with the exception of the big 6 + Newcastle & maybe Everton, the fact is we're choosing not to compete with them financially as sustainability is the word around town.

So 8 out of 20! Roughly half then

 

[PapaWaigo]

3. I still believe that the long-term aim of the club is to bring through more and more players from the Academy into the first team. It may be the case that we can feel there is more loyalty from these players, if our results on the pitch are competing with the top teams, together with runs in the Europa, or even the Champions League, and we can offer Academy graduates a decent long-term contract.

I expected the usual comments of people saying 'you should support the club and not the players' etc. Of course I do. It seems that a lot of people agree with me though and it is a shame. As you say, this is the trajectory that football has been on for years.

In terms of loyalty from youth players, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this could be the case. Even then, we seem content with selling them anyhow. Perhaps if we continue to compete at our current level they may be happier to stay to develop. I have no problem with them leaving at 23/24 for a shot at the Champions League - similar to what Morgan has done.

 

[Libby]

We can compete pretty much any club with the exception of the big 6 + Newcastle & maybe Everton, the fact is we're choosing not to compete with them financially as sustainability is the word around town.

Still not sure about this, think you can add West Ham to that, what were they paying Song? (I know was a loan but they were trying to sign him pernamently, at 27!!) Also I swear I saw something last year that Sunderland were the 7th/8th highest payers in the division.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I expected the usual comments of people saying 'you should support the club and not the players' etc. Of course I do. It seems that a lot of people agree with me though and it is a shame. As you say, this is the trajectory that football has been on for years.

In terms of loyalty from youth players, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this could be the case. Even then, we seem content with selling them anyhow. Perhaps if we continue to compete at our current level they may be happier to stay to develop. I have no problem with them leaving at 23/24 for a shot at the Champions League - similar to what Morgan has done.

I think people only get eggy if they see someone continually criticising the club (or an individual player) unfairly and with what seems like an agenda. The points you raise are absolutely fair enough.

 

[Beddy]

I would certainly agree that no one should be shot down for having, or expressing an opinion. This surely is what this Forum is for.
A lot of the problems these days is that there is too much money being moved around. We seem to be going down the lines of the American sports market where silly money is the norm. I suppose it was bound to happen with the various prize money's on offer and will only increase. We either increase our following and expand with the league or we go down with a whimper. I know which I and most would prefer perhaps.

 

[Shepherd's Clearing]

I'll try in answer you points in my own inelegant way.

Firstly, I wouldn't shoot you down for offering an opinion in an eloquent and polite manner. By questioning what the club is doing and whether it is the correct course how is that 'bed wetting' or not 'being loyal'? It is a legitimate question and after all you are looking for poster's opinions be they for or agin you. That is fair enough.

I think the club don't really understand the big physiological effect that selling our best players every year has on the fans at all, what's more, despite all the gum flapping from certain representatives of the club I don't think they are overly bothered - they have a plan and they are sticking to it regardless, even if it looked like it was starting to go wrong....

In this modern age I'm not surprised you find it hard to relate to the team. When you have a 17 year old who has come up through the system, breaks through into the first team and the first thing he wants to do is leave the club what are supposed to think? When he signed on Tadic said this was a good club to come to because you can move to a bigger club, or something like that for Christssake! Whatever anyone at the club says and whatever the more positive fans say no other club in the Premiership is looked upon as a selling club as much as we are. We have made that bed and now we have to lie in it.

I guess it looks like this doesn't happen to other clubs but it does, I think we just seemed to have more publicity. Villa and Swansea have lost their best players recently and Everton have been raided, you forgot fan-favourite Fellaini who couldn't wait to go to Man United and we ourselves have raided Feyenoord and Celtic,

Having ranted the above, I believe the club are surviving on good will at the moment, have a crap season this season then sell Mane and Wanyama next season and see how much the fans believe Les.

Do not idolise or love any player, that's my advice. Personally whenever I see a Saints player interview or Les spouting off I just don't believe anything I hear. I'm still waiting for Clyne and Toby to play this season - after all weren't we in a good place with regards to them?

I find massively frustrating that players and back room staff don't give a toss about the supporters but that is the way it is and will always will be. As long as there is a club most of us will be here taken for granted. They only way to really make an impact is for one weekend no one in the country to turn up at any game - and that is never going to happen.

After reading the above I think I've gone mad but I'm going to leave what I wrote as it was a stream of conciousness and I meant it when I wrote it.

I'm off to lie down...

 

[ChilcoSaint]

By the way, I think we are talking about "psychological" effects here, rather than "physiological". Sorry to be pedantic!