Coronavirus

[Hoddle is a god]

A minimum of 40, 000 had died of the virus in this country.
Approximately 620,000 have died world wide.

That's with full lockdowns in most (if not all countries).

Only a complete moron believes that
this is no worse than the usual flu.

On average, 650,000 people die annually worldwide of normal flu.

You have literally just confirmed that this alleged pandemic is no worse than the normal flu in any average year.

 

[DerekTheMole]

On average, 650,000 people die annually worldwide of normal flu.

You have literally just confirmed that this alleged pandemic is no worse than the normal flu in any average year.

COVID has been around (at least globally) about 4 months. So we're looking at triple the flu deaths and that's with a lockdown.

Next.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

On average, 650,000 people die annually worldwide of normal flu.

You have literally just confirmed that this alleged pandemic is no worse than the normal flu in any average year.

Apart from the near-worldwide lockdown and social distancing bit.

 

[Tobes]

On average, 650,000 people die annually worldwide of normal flu.

You have literally just confirmed that this alleged pandemic is no worse than the normal flu in any average year.

Your seemingly wilful ignorance on this subject really doesn’t reflect well.

Here’s some more actual facts for you;

The chart below uses data from EuroMOMO, a network of epidemiologists who collect weekly reports on deaths from all causes in 24 European countries, covering 350m people. These figures show that, compared with a historical baseline of 2009-19, Europe has suffered some deadly flu seasons since 2016—but that the death toll this year from covid-19 is far greater. Overall, the number of excess deaths across the continent since March is about 170,000. Though most of those victims have been older than 65, the number of deaths among Europeans aged 45-64 was 40% higher than usual in early April.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/15/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

 

[FosseFilberto]

I believe these numbers have been greatly exaggerated.

In any one year, 650,000 people worldwide die from flu. Millions die every year from heart disease and cancer.

I question why this particular virus has been targeted for the draconian curtailing of basic freedoms. Why are you intent on denying me the right to do that?

HIAG, the excess death numbers during the period that Covid-19 has impacted the UK currently stands at just over 65,000 - this is from the ONS and is based on averages over 5 years for the same period - it is not exaggerated in any way and is arguably the only true barometer of the deaths that have resulted from the impact of this virus.

I'm also a believer that somebody coughing or spluttering with a mask on must have a reduced capacity for spreading airborne droplets of moisture - more common sense than strictly scientific but, for that reason, I am prepared to wear a mask when in public spaces and thereby extend that particular courtesy to others

 

[PINKIE]

Your seemingly wilful ignorance on this subject really doesn’t reflect well.

Here’s some more actual facts for you;

The chart below uses data from EuroMOMO, a network of epidemiologists who collect weekly reports on deaths from all causes in 24 European countries, covering 350m people. These figures show that, compared with a historical baseline of 2009-19, Europe has suffered some deadly flu seasons since 2016—but that the death toll this year from covid-19 is far greater. Overall, the number of excess deaths across the continent since March is about 170,000. Though most of those victims have been older than 65, the number of deaths among Europeans aged 45-64 was 40% higher than usual in early April.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/15/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

HIAG will dismiss that as nothing but Govt propaganda.

 

[DerekTheMole]

HIAG will dismiss that as nothing but Govt propaganda.

Tobes is always doing that, the cretin.

 

[PINKIE]

I'm also a believer that somebody coughing or spluttering with a mask on must have a reduced capacity for spreading airborne droplets of moisture - more common sense than strictly scientific but, for that reason, I am prepared to wear a mask when in public spaces and thereby extend that particular courtesy to others

And you would be right as the science backs this up

 

[Tobes]

HIAG will dismiss that as nothing but Govt propaganda.

Excess death stats are the only true measure, as it removes any debate or Govt excusing making, over the differences in cause of death reporting from country to country, as it is merely reporting the difference in death rates to the average, for the equivalent period.

They’re literally removing any Govt interference with the reported COVID deaths, so that ‘logic’ would be fundamentally flawed and therefore have literally zero credibility.

 

[Hoddle is a god]

Looking for a solid response to all those mask bullies who make the argument “but doctors and nurses wear masks and are fine” and believe that masks/face coverings work for this situation?✌
(from Caitlyn - an RN)

Them: "But, Cait, don't you wear a mask when you're in the operating room?! YOU of all people should be advocating for people to wear masks!"

Me: I'm so glad you asked! Let's break down a few key points.

One, in the surgery setting we wear masks for a couple reasons, none of which have much of anything to do with preventing the spread of viruses. The first is to prevent bacteria particles from our own nose and mouth from entering into the patient's surgical cavity. This is not because anyone is sick. This is because we all carry pathogenic material in our airways, that normally are a non-issue, but when a patient is in a compromised state from being given general anesthesia and having their body sliced open, they become more susceptible to these opportunistic microbes we all carry. The second purpose of the mask in surgery is to prevent exposure of the provider to the patient's fluids and tissue. Interesting to note, in many countries the circulating nurse doesn't wear a mask, only those hovering over the surgical site don PPE.

Secondly, not all masks are created equal and most people have no idea which masks are for which circumstances, or that most masks provide little if any protection against viruses. The right mask worn incorrectly increases risk. The masks typically worn in the operating room are simply medical grade surgical masks, like the one I'm wearing here, and are not recommended for use when the presence of small particulate or aerosolized pathogens are in play. They're great for keeping the teams spit out of the patients incision while they communicate during surgery and prevent chunks of tissue and blood spatter from being on the inadvertent lunch menu, but aside from that they're really just little humid breath collectors. Instances when one would don an N95 respirator would be things like a case with a TB positive patient. And we are fit tested for those and given a specific mask type to use in such cases. The fit test consists of putting a giant plastic box over your head and spraying an aerosolized compound into the container while you wait to determine if your mask fit is good based on whether you can taste/smell the spray. It's a big ordeal and redone each year in most facilities.

Last, in my 15+ years in healthcare, I have witnessed more improper use of PPE than I can quantify. I have seen seasoned medical professionals contaminate themselves and everything around them in a matter of seconds. Using equipment without the proper knowledge or training is a recipe for disaster and in this case, increased exposure. Unless you've thoroughly read through the literature and understand the approved uses, application and removal process, appropriate discarding protocols, etc you should probably just sit down and stop promoting inappropriate and unsafe mask use.

So if you're not planning on doing some surgery while you shop for groceries or take a walk in the park, your mask is really just serving to warm your face and harbor some of those germs you're so terrified of right in front of your airway. And if you're wearing a sock or underwear on your face or rocking a bandana like we're in the wild west, you're simply creating more laundry for yourself, but doing absolutely nothing to stop the spread of pathogens.

And I have to say, I'm a little disappointed to see so many "educated" medical professionals promoting unsafe, baseless practices and seemingly forgetting their foundational knowledge

***None of this even touches on the negative health impacts that can be caused from extended mask use, chronic fear and anxiety, and allowing others to make decisions for you because you don't feel informed or empowered enough to make them yourself. I'll save that for another post.
________________________________________

Just a few studies about mask efficacy for those inquiring minds:

It appears that several of the links originally included have been removed (surprise, surprise). But that's ok, because there's plenty more where those came from. Like these right here:

This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/#__ffn_sectitle

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.full

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...t-back-cloth-masks-limit-covid-19-experts-say

Cloth masks can increase infection

https://www.who.int/publications-de...of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak
From the WHO: There is limited evidence that wearing a medical mask by healthy individuals in the households or among contacts of a sick patient, or among attendees of mass gatherings may be beneficial as a preventive measure.14-23 However, there is currently no evidence that wearing a mask (whether medical or other types) by healthy persons in the wider community setting, including universal community masking, can prevent them from infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID-19.

Prolonged wearing of the surgical mask causes loss of intellect potential and cognitive performance due to a decrease in blood oxygen and subsequent brain hypoxia. Note - some changes may be irreversible.

"Report on surgical mask induced deoxygenation during major surgery" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18500410

"Seventy percent of the patients showed a reduction in partial pressure of oxygen (PaO2), and 19% developed various degrees of hypoxemia. Wearing an N95 mask significantly reduced the PaO2 level"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15340662

"Wearing N95 masks results in hypooxygenemia and hypercapnia which reduce working efficiency and the ability to make correct decision."
...
"Medical staff are at increased risk of getting 'Severe acute respiratory syndrome' (SARS), and wearing N95 masks is highly recommended by experts worldwide. However, dizziness, headache, and short of breath are commonly experienced by the medical staff wearing N95 masks. The ability to make correct decision may be hampered, too."
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00173017
https://www.researchgate.net/…/7332926_Headaches_and_the_N9…

"Chronic hypoxia-hypercapnia influences cognitive function"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18331781

"Hypercapnia status has been shown to predict mild cognitive impairment https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35797-3

Chronic hypoxia – hypercapnia has been seen as a cause of cognitive impairment https://www.atsjournals.org/…/fu…/10.1164/ajrccm.186.12.1307

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31479137

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26952529

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577#T1

Fit testing matters less vs it’s an N95 mask: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21477136

Masks don’t seem to impact family infection as much: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28039289

Medical or N95 isn’t that different: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31479137

Cloth masks worse than surgical masks for anything <2.5 uM: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27531371

Particle size breakdown and fabric differences for cloth masks and particle penetration: https://doi.org/10.1093/annhyg/meq044

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2

In conclusion, both surgical and cotton masks seem to be ineffective in preventing the dissemination of SARS–CoV-2 from the coughs of patients with COVID-19 to the environment and external mask surface.
https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/...sks-blocking-sars-cov-2-controlled-comparison

 

[Hoddle is a god]

I’m sorry I was forced to post my last post, but it was necessary to combat the idiocy that I have had to tolerate on this board.

 

[gooner4ever]

On average, 650,000 people die annually worldwide of normal flu.

You have literally just confirmed that this alleged pandemic is no worse than the normal flu in any average year.

we have only had approx 4 months of virus for 620k deaths, so multiply by 3 and you are looking at just under 2m deaths globally.
That’s without any second spike.

you really still believe you are right don’t you

 

[gooner4ever]

I’m sorry I was forced to post my last post, but it was necessary to combat the idiocy that I have had to tolerate on this board.

So if one of your family members was at risk of COVID due to underlying health conditions would you still refuse to wear a mask when you meet them

 

[Hoddle is a god]

we have only had approx 4 months of virus for 620k deaths, so multiply by 3 and you are looking at just under 2m deaths globally.
That’s without any second spike.

you really still believe you are right don’t you

Even if you accept the numbers attributed to coronavirus, the problem for the pandemic fanboys is that the numbers being infected have slowed drastically and even stopped in some countries.

This is why the Government propaganda has been talking up a so-called second spike, since the very outbreak of this plandemic.

Not enough people are dying to justify the perpetual fear mongering.

 

[DerekTheMole]

Even if you accept the numbers attributed to coronavirus, the problem for the pandemic fanboys is that the numbers being infected have slowed drastically and even stopped in some countries.

This is why the Government propaganda has been talking up a so-called second spike, since the very outbreak of this plandemic.

Not enough people are dying to justify the perpetual fear mongering.

Because they're social distancing and wearing masks FFS

 

[Hoddle is a god]

So if one of your family members was at risk of COVID due to underlying health conditions would you still refuse to wear a mask when you meet them

They don’t work, and no amount of emotive language on your part is going to change that.

 

[PINKIE]

I’m sorry I was forced to post my last post, but it was necessary to combat the idiocy that I have had to tolerate on this board.

The WHO advice has been updated HIAG, hence this whole argument.

But that's just propaganda right ?

 

[pompeymeowth]

They don’t work, and no amount of emotive language on your part is going to change that.

So no then?

 

[DerekTheMole]

They don’t work, and no amount of emotive language on your part is going to change that.

Please explain how this virus spreads. Thanks in advance.

 

[Tobes]

Even if you accept the numbers attributed to coronavirus, the problem for the pandemic fanboys is that the numbers being infected have slowed drastically and even stopped in some countries.

This is why the Government propaganda has been talking up a so-called second spike, since the very outbreak of this plandemic.

Not enough people are dying to justify the perpetual fear mongering.

The number of worldwide infections per day hit a new peak yesterday at over 250,000.

This is just too easy. I’m embarrassed for you I really am.