Off Topic Coronavirus

[qprbeth]

Here's another weird symptom.
If I move around a bit, like take a shower, make some food, go up and down stairs, I get a stitch in my side.
Anyone know why this could be (sensible answers would be appreciated)?

Col, there are a lot of reports (20% of cases in a US study) of what are called abdominal pain associated with Covid, which can give upset stomach, stomach pain and diarrhoea and vomiting. But there are reports of patients who have complained of side and back pain (probably more akin to your stitch) and these seem to be associated with Covid infection (which they see on scans as opaque blobs on MRI scans) at the seat of the lung. Inflammation there at the bottom of the lung, which is agitated when you move etc, could be the route of your stitch. I believe it could be just another one of those strange symptoms...and should pass.
Hope you are feeling better soon


PS If it doesn't pass/ease soon, see a doctor as it could be the start of something completely separate to Covid...appendicitis etc.

 

[rangercol]

Col, there are a lot of reports (20% of cases in a US study) of what are called abdominal pain associated with Covid, which can give upset stomach, stomach pain and diarrhoea and vomiting. But there are reports of patients who have complained of side and back pain (probably more akin to your stitch) and these seem to be associated with Covid infection (which they see on scans as opaque blobs on MRI scans) at the seat of the lung. Inflammation there at the bottom of the lung, which is agitated when you move etc, could be the route of your stitch. I believe it could be just another one of those strange symptoms...and should pass.
Hope you are feeling better soon


PS If it doesn't pass/ease soon, see a doctor as it could be the start of something completely separate to Covid...appendicitis etc.

Thanks Beth.
I looked it up as general thing, not related to covid or running.
Sounds like poor posture and dehydration are possible causes too, which definitely fits.
I'll keep an eye.

Thanks again.

 

[Hill Street Blues]

Hi all,

I've been following this thread for a while now and have found it really interesting to read through the thoughts, feelings and opinions of fellow Rs fans.

It's clear that in many cases, emotion is driving the discussion and I believe that's because we don't know who or what sources of information or fact we can trust anymore.

Just to add my thoughts and experiences to the discussion... I'm unvaccinated. I haven't worn a mask in months and I have carried on living life exactly as I would have done otherwise. I have only contracted covid once despite visiting busy cities and venues regularly, and thankfully when I did have it, it just left me feeling a bit fatigued and didn't last too long. For me, it was nothing compared to the cold I had a couple of months ago, which wasn't terrible, but was definitely worse although I'm aware that everyone experiences the effects of covid differently.

If I feel ill, then I take a test. If I'm feeling under the weather, then I keep away from others in order to protect them, and expect them to do the same. If I were to visit a retirement home, then I'd wear a mask. Do we really need to rely on government guidance to act responsibly?

As history has proven time and time again, the more we rely on the government, the more power and control they have over our every day lives, and ultimately the less freedom we have.

We only need to look towards the ongoing situation in Canada and the example they are trying to make of the Freedom Convoy to see how dangerous this can be. The government is attempting to quell dissent and voted through the Emergency Act to allow them to 'legally' freeze bank accounts of protestors, seize (steal) possessions and in some cases, to justify taking (kidnapping) children away from their parents.

I'm not even too sure what my point is here, but just wanted throw some thoughts out there in the hope that it adds some value to the discussion.


Finally, although related to the US, I thought this tweet / information below was particularly interesting...

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[sb_73]

Hi all,

I've been following this thread for a while now and have found it really interesting to read through the thoughts, feelings and opinions of fellow Rs fans.

It's clear that in many cases, emotion is driving the discussion and I believe that's because we don't know who or what sources of information or fact we can trust anymore.

Just to add my thoughts and experiences to the discussion... I'm unvaccinated. I haven't worn a mask in months and I have carried on living life exactly as I would have done otherwise. I have only contracted covid once despite visiting busy cities and venues regularly, and thankfully when I did have it, it just left me feeling a bit fatigued and didn't last too long. For me, it was nothing compared to the cold I had a couple of months ago, which wasn't terrible, but was definitely worse although I'm aware that everyone experiences the effects of covid differently.

If I feel ill, then I take a test. If I'm feeling under the weather, then I keep away from others in order to protect them, and expect them to do the same. If I were to visit a retirement home, then I'd wear a mask. Do we really need to rely on government guidance to act responsibly?

As history has proven time and time again, the more we rely on the government, the more power and control they have over our every day lives, and ultimately the less freedom we have.

We only need to look towards the ongoing situation in Canada and the example they are trying to make of the Freedom Convoy to see how dangerous this can be. The government is attempting to quell dissent and voted through the Emergency Act to allow them to 'legally' freeze bank accounts of protestors, seize (steal) possessions and in some cases, to justify taking (kidnapping) children away from their parents.

I'm not even too sure what my point is here, but just wanted throw some thoughts out there in the hope that it adds some value to the discussion.


Finally, although related to the US, I thought this tweet / information below was particularly interesting...

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Can I ask why you chose not to be vaccinated? And also if you have declined other vaccinations and medicines.

 

[Hill Street Blues]

Can I ask why you chose not to be vaccinated? And also if you have declined other vaccinations and medicines.

Of course you can - I chose not to be vaccinated as I'm in my early 30's, exercise regularly and have a healthy diet. Therefore, as far as I've read, I've got a 99.9%+ chance of recovery from Covid. Statistically speaking, I'd be more likely to experience extreme adverse effects from this vaccine than I am to die from the virus. A risk I am personally happy to take so long as it doesn't negatively impact anyone else - which it doesn't.

My understanding is that the Covid vaccines are still in their trial phase until 2023, and despite being fast-tracked I wanted to wait until the conclusion of these trials before making a decision either way. I am not an anti-vaxxer (whatever that means nowadays) but am just waiting until things become clearer before I make a decision as I'm aware that once you do get it, there's no ungetting it.

I've also not had children (yet) and as its been impossible to study the long term effects the vaccine could have on children of vaccinated parents I didn't want to take a risk there either. I'm not saying that vaccinated parents are going to create mutant offspring, but it's just another concern of mine as the early data seems to indicate that it reduces a child's ability to fight off illness and diseases naturally.

As a child I didn't really have much of a say when it came to vaccinations, so I received whatever my parents agreed to. More recently, I've had one or two vaccinations when travelling abroad, weighing up the risks of the vaccines against the risks of the negative effects of the illness / infection and decided that they were worth taking. These vaccines were around for a lot longer than 20 months, so there was a lot more data available to inform my decision.

In my opinion, the focus should have always been on encouraging exercise, a well-balanced diet and a healthy lifestyle as it seemed clear from the start that there was a link between pre-existing comorbidities / obesity and suffering more greatly from the virus.

I hope that answers your questions, but more than happy to answer any others you may have.

 

[sb_73]

Of course you can - I chose not to be vaccinated as I'm in my early 30's, exercise regularly and have a healthy diet. Therefore, as far as I've read, I've got a 99.9%+ chance of recovery from Covid. Statistically speaking, I'd be more likely to experience extreme adverse effects from this vaccine than I am to die from the virus. A risk I am personally happy to take so long as it doesn't negatively impact anyone else - which it doesn't.

My understanding is that the Covid vaccines are still in their trial phase until 2023, and despite being fast-tracked I wanted to wait until the conclusion of these trials before making a decision either way. I am not an anti-vaxxer (whatever that means nowadays) but am just waiting until things become clearer before I make a decision as I'm aware that once you do get it, there's no ungetting it.

I've also not had children (yet) and as its been impossible to study the long term effects the vaccine could have on children of vaccinated parents I didn't want to take a risk there either. I'm not saying that vaccinated parents are going to create mutant offspring, but it's just another concern of mine as the early data seems to indicate that it reduces a child's ability to fight off illness and diseases naturally.

As a child I didn't really have much of a say when it came to vaccinations, so I received whatever my parents agreed to. More recently, I've had one or two vaccinations when travelling abroad, weighing up the risks of the vaccines against the risks of the negative effects of the illness / infection and decided that they were worth taking. These vaccines were around for a lot longer than 20 months, so there was a lot more data available to inform my decision.

In my opinion, the focus should have always been on encouraging exercise, a well-balanced diet and a healthy lifestyle as it seemed clear from the start that there was a link between pre-existing comorbidities / obesity and suffering more greatly from the virus.

I hope that answers your questions, but more than happy to answer any others you may have.

Thanks for the response.

 

[rangercol]

Thanks for the response.

Would love to know your thoughts on what he said.

 

[sb_73]

Would love to know your thoughts on what he said.

Mixed, and obviously not my personal take on the purpose behind vaccination (protecting whole populations as much as individuals) or the science (nearly 5 billion people have now had at least one dose, we know more about these medicines than just about any other in history). His sources of information are likely very different to mine.

However, a young healthy man is/was very unlikely to get seriously ill from any variation of COVID, so from a strictly individual perspective vaccination is probably not offering serious illness/live saving protection in most (not all) cases). Getting vaccinated, even for this demographic, is still safer than getting COVID, and of course it could have offered life saving protection to others if Hill Street was asymptomatic and unknown to himself spreading the virus.

Not wearing a mask in enclosed spaces, whatever you think of their utility, just seems to me an insult to others who feel safer when the people around them are masked up. It costs nothing and reduces anxiety in others, so why not play the game?

But I don’t have the energy to enter an argument about it, and HillStreet provided a clear statement of his perspective, which of course he is entitled to.

 

[Hill Street Blues]

Mixed, and obviously not my personal take on the purpose behind vaccination (protecting whole populations as much as individuals) or the science (nearly 5 billion people have now had at least one dose, we know more about these medicines than just about any other in history). His sources of information are likely very different to mine.

However, a young healthy man is/was very unlikely to get seriously ill from any variation of COVID, so from a strictly individual perspective vaccination is probably not offering serious illness/live saving protection in most (not all) cases). Getting vaccinated, even for this demographic, is still safer than getting COVID, and of course it could have offered life saving protection to others if Hill Street was asymptomatic and unknown to himself spreading the virus.

Not wearing a mask in enclosed spaces, whatever you think of their utility, just seems to me an insult to others who feel safer when the people around them are masked up. It costs nothing and reduces anxiety in others, so why not play the game?

But I don’t have the energy to enter an argument about it, and HillStreet provided a clear statement of his perspective, which of course he is entitled to.

Yes, agreed that there's no need to get into an argument about differing opinions. This is a forum of discussion after all and an open-dialogue is the only way to bridge the division that has been manufactured between the vaccinated and unvaccinated over the last few months. Understanding the other side of the coin is always important in appreciating the choices others make and the reasons why.

As you say, we clearly have very different sources of news and information and naturally both probably exist in echo chambers where we only ever hear our own opinions repeated back to us which is why forums like this are so important. I think its healthy to have your opinion challenged which is why I decided to post on here. I know enough to know that I don't know anything and am more than happy to be educated with facts and the truth.

I'm not too sure of the benefit that others gain from me being vaccinated? I can't see that it affects anyone other than myself as surely I don't need to be vaccinated for your vaccine to work? Unless I'm overlooking something obvious.

I'd disagree that it's safer for someone in my demographic to be vaccinated. As things stand, I'm 100% protected against the vaccine side effects, and 99.98% protected against dying from Covid. That's a pretty good deal in my eyes.

Agreed that wearing a mask could ease some peoples anxieties, but on the flip side, maybe it increases the anxiety of those wearing the mask?

I don't personally buy the whole asymptomatic narrative. I think your either ill or your not. Convincing a healthy person that they're ill and could be carrying a disease that could kill strangers and their loved ones even when they don't show any effects and are perfectly healthy is psychologically damaging. Just my opinion though and always happy to hear differing views.

 

[rangercol]

Yes, agreed that there's no need to get into an argument about differing opinions. This is a forum of discussion after all and an open-dialogue is the only way to bridge the division that has been manufactured between the vaccinated and unvaccinated over the last few months. Understanding the other side of the coin is always important in appreciating the choices others make and the reasons why.

As you say, we clearly have very different sources of news and information and naturally both probably exist in echo chambers where we only ever hear our own opinions repeated back to us which is why forums like this are so important. I think its healthy to have your opinion challenged which is why I decided to post on here. I know enough to know that I don't know anything and am more than happy to be educated with facts and the truth.

I'm not too sure of the benefit that others gain from me being vaccinated? I can't see that it affects anyone other than myself as surely I don't need to be vaccinated for your vaccine to work? Unless I'm overlooking something obvious.

I'd disagree that it's safer for someone in my demographic to be vaccinated. As things stand, I'm 100% protected against the vaccine side effects, and 99.98% protected against dying from Covid. That's a pretty good deal in my eyes.

Agreed that wearing a mask could ease some peoples anxieties, but on the flip side, maybe it increases the anxiety of those wearing the mask?

I don't personally buy the whole asymptomatic narrative. I think your either ill or your not. Convincing a healthy person that they're ill and could be carrying a disease that could kill strangers and their loved ones even when they don't show any effects and are perfectly healthy is psychologically damaging. Just my opinion though and always happy to hear differing views.

I almost certainly caught covid from someone who is triple jabbed. I know this because we have a kind of control group who all started to test positive around the same time (a cast in a theatre production).
Had I caught it from an unvaccinated person I would have received a much higher viral load, according to the science.
I have been reasonably unwell as it is.
Therefore, being vaccinated does help your fellow citizens imo.

Being asymptomatic isn't a narrative imo, it's scientifically researched opnion imo.

 

[Hill Street Blues]

I almost certainly caught covid from someone who is triple jabbed. I know this because we have a kind of control group who all started to test positive around the same time (a cast in a theatre production).
Had I caught it from an unvaccinated person I would have received a much higher viral load, according to the science.
I have been reasonably unwell as it is.
Therefore, being vaccinated does help your fellow citizens imo.

Being asymptomatic isn't a narrative imo, it's scientifically researched opnion imo.

Very interesting stuff. I'll delve into the asymptomatic research some more and see what I can find. Admittedly, I think narrative was the wrong choice of word there and makes me sounds a bit of a conspiracy nut but happy to read through any sources you're able to provide. After all, I think we all just want to know the truth and so we're all just making decisions based on our best judgement, weighing up the risk and rewards of each decision and understandably sometimes we come to different conclusion.

 

[rangercol]

Very interesting stuff. I'll delve into the asymptomatic research some more and see what I can find. Admittedly, I think narrative was the wrong choice of word there and makes me sounds a bit of a conspiracy nut but happy to read through any sources you're able to provide. After all, I think we all just want to know the truth and so we're all just making decisions based on our best judgement, weighing up the risk and rewards of each decision and understandably sometimes we come to different conclusion.

To be honest, we've done all this to death on here over the last couple of years.
All the scientific research and opinion is very easily found.

 

[Tramore Ranger]

Welcome back hill street blues from a 10 year hiatus in posting..... take it you'll be joining us on the match day thread tomorrow.....

 

[QPR999]

Welcome back hill street blues from a 10 year hiatus in posting..... take it you'll be joining us on the match day thread tomorrow.....

I agree Tramore, Hill St Blues is an eloquent poster who's contributions elsewhere would be an asset to our board.

 

[Hill Street Blues]

To be honest, we've done all this to death on here over the last couple of years.
All the scientific research and opinion is very easily found.

Yeah, fair enough. As previously mentioned, we get our information and news from different sources so maybe you would have been able to provide an alternative view or research that I haven't come across on my own before. Thanks anyway.

 

[sb_73]

Very interesting stuff. I'll delve into the asymptomatic research some more and see what I can find. Admittedly, I think narrative was the wrong choice of word there and makes me sounds a bit of a conspiracy nut but happy to read through any sources you're able to provide. After all, I think we all just want to know the truth and so we're all just making decisions based on our best judgement, weighing up the risk and rewards of each decision and understandably sometimes we come to different conclusion.

This will depend very much on what you believe are credible sources. The article linked below is based on one what I would regard as a thoroughly reputable and unbiased source, the Journal of the American Medical Association. The links in the article give more details of the research. Up to 40% of infections (where people are still infectious) may be asymptomatic.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...h-a-sars-cov-2-infection-may-have-no-symptoms

My personal credibility (or otherwise) on these issues should also be challenged. I am not a scientist or a clinician. But I have spent 21 years in the pharmaceutical industry on the commercial side helping to take potential medicines through development to launch. I work closely with doctors and scientists and need to have a working understanding of what makes a strong trial and credible evidence. Col will remember that I was very critical of the trials and the way the data was presented for the AZ vaccine - turns out that they did themselves a huge disservice, as the vaccine was much better than their confused data implied. That opened the door for the (way over the top) criticism from Macron and the EU. Poor science gets punished….sooner or later. Before the drugs industry I spent more than ten years in and around the NHS, managing and planning services alongside clinicians. I take a hyper critical stance on nearly everything I read/hear on this and other issues asking myself about motivations, sources, funding, triangulation before reaching a conclusion. But of course I have my own biases and prejudices as well.

 

[Hill Street Blues]

Welcome back hill street blues from a 10 year hiatus in posting..... take it you'll be joining us on the match day thread tomorrow.....

Thanks Tramore & QPR999s. I'll be there posting my thoughts following the game. Glad to be back!

 

[Hill Street Blues]

This will depend very much on what you believe are credible sources. The article linked below is based on one what I would regard as a thoroughly reputable and unbiased source, the Journal of the American Medical Association. The links in the article give more details of the research. Up to 40% of infections (where people are still infectious) may be asymptomatic.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...h-a-sars-cov-2-infection-may-have-no-symptoms

My personal credibility (or otherwise) on these issues should also be challenged. I am not a scientist or a clinician. But I have spent 21 years in the pharmaceutical industry on the commercial side helping to take potential medicines through development to launch. I work closely with doctors and scientists and need to have a working understanding of what makes a strong trial and credible evidence. Col will remember that I was very critical of the trials and the way the data was presented for the AZ vaccine - turns out that they did themselves a huge disservice, as the vaccine was much better than their confused data implied. That opened the door for the (way over the top) criticism from Macron and the EU. Poor science gets punished….sooner or later. Before the drugs industry I spent more than ten years in and around the NHS, managing and planning services alongside clinicians. I take a hyper critical stance on nearly everything I read/hear on this and other issues asking myself about motivations, sources, funding, triangulation before reaching a conclusion. But of course I have my own biases and prejudices as well.

Thanks sb_73. Really appreciate you providing a source. I'll be sure to give that a read.

 

[rangercol]

Yeah, fair enough. As previously mentioned, we get our information and news from different sources so maybe you would have been able to provide an alternative view or research that I haven't come across on my own before. Thanks anyway.

Google it.
I've read a lot of the science and a lot of people who disagree with the science.

You tend to keep suggesting that people just hear what they want to hear, where they want to hear it.

I listened to experts, both medical and scientific and trusted that they had no reason to lie to me.
Others seem to want to believe that they are lying for a variety of whacky reasons.
Why don't you believe the medics and scientists?

 

[rangercol]

This will depend very much on what you believe are credible sources. The article linked below is based on one what I would regard as a thoroughly reputable and unbiased source, the Journal of the American Medical Association. The links in the article give more details of the research. Up to 40% of infections (where people are still infectious) may be asymptomatic.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...h-a-sars-cov-2-infection-may-have-no-symptoms

My personal credibility (or otherwise) on these issues should also be challenged. I am not a scientist or a clinician. But I have spent 21 years in the pharmaceutical industry on the commercial side helping to take potential medicines through development to launch. I work closely with doctors and scientists and need to have a working understanding of what makes a strong trial and credible evidence. Col will remember that I was very critical of the trials and the way the data was presented for the AZ vaccine - turns out that they did themselves a huge disservice, as the vaccine was much better than their confused data implied. That opened the door for the (way over the top) criticism from Macron and the EU. Poor science gets punished….sooner or later. Before the drugs industry I spent more than ten years in and around the NHS, managing and planning services alongside clinicians. I take a hyper critical stance on nearly everything I read/hear on this and other issues asking myself about motivations, sources, funding, triangulation before reaching a conclusion. But of course I have my own biases and prejudices as well.

And whilst we regularly disagree on some things, this is why I always listened to your opinion on this stuff, and Beth come to that, as far as the science is concerned.