Off Topic Coronavirus

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Conversation on site was interesting yesterday. How mixed the anti vaxers are in regards to poitical leaning. I know absolutely loads of right wing voters who are refusing the vaccine and a fair few left wing voters aswell. (Including my sis in law). I totally understand their stance and respect it.
 
I'm having difficulty with the compulsory vaccination for a job in health care.

Don't attack me because I do not know what to actually think. So thought I would try and thrash it out with you lot ( yes a daft idea)

1. I would like everyone vaccinated so we actually practically stop transmission and so deaths will be hugely reduced.
2. I respect free will.
3. Surgeons do have to have a hepatitis jab before practicing surgery..so why don't care workers
4. But surgeons are highly qualified and can practice other forms of medicine if they don't want to be vaccinated.
5. Care workers are very low paid, and in many cases it is one of the only jobs they can get

Surely we need to find out why they don't want to be vaccinated. As many have witnessed first hand many many deaths in the first wave.

I also wonder how many people this really represents.

Any thoughts please
 
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Apparently up to 12 percent will not get the jab here
Number actually sounds low
At work the Maoris seem the most resistant
Is it really still classed as an experimental vaccine
 
qprbeth said:
I'm having difficulty with the compulsory vaccination for a job in health care.

Don't attack me because I do not know what to actually think. So thought I would try and thrash it out with you lot ( yes a daft idea)

1. I would like everyone vaccinated so we actually practically stop transmission and so deaths will be hugely reduced.
2. I respect free will.
3. Surgeons do have to have a hepatitis jab before practicing surgery..so why don't care workers
4. But surgeons are highly qualified and can practice other forms of medicine if they don't want to be vaccinated.
5. Care workers are very low paid, and in many cases it is one of the only jobs they can get

Surely we need to find out why they don't want to be vaccinated. As many have witnessed first hand many many deaths in the first wave.

I also wonder how many people this really represents.

Any thoughts please
Click to expand...
Lots of jobs, probably most, have requirements that must be met, some of which are inconvenient, time consuming and possibly risky. At one stage of my career I was driving over 30k miles a year for work, it was a condition of my employment, which I imagine was far more dangerous than taking the vaccine. Of course I could choose not to do the job, as could the care home workers - sadly we are told that there are lots of low paid job vacancies at the moment.

if this condition was put in place for all new entrants to care home working I don’t think we would give it a second thought. It’s the retrospective application which is the issue.

20,000 care home residents died in the first wave of the virus (underestimate because of the many deaths of untested people, with excess deaths as the measure it’s probably more like 27,000).
21,000 died in the second wave.

I think it’s reasonable to put in place measures that would help avoid these figures in the future.
 
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sb_73 said:
Lots of jobs, probably most, have requirements that must be met, some of which are inconvenient, time consuming and possibly risky. At one stage of my career I was driving over 30k miles a year for work, it was a condition of my employment, which I imagine was far more dangerous than taking the vaccine. Of course I could choose not to do the job, as could the care home workers - sadly we are told that there are lots of low paid job vacancies at the moment.

if this condition was put in place for all new entrants to care home working I don’t think we would give it a second thought. It’s the retrospective application which is the issue.

20,000 care home residents died in the first wave of the virus (underestimate because of the many deaths of untested people, with excess deaths as the measure it’s probably more like 27,000).
21,000 died in the second wave.

I think it’s reasonable to put in place measures that would help avoid these figures in the future.
Click to expand...


Yes that is a lovely synopsis.
All jobs have stipulations. Mine was to study for 7 years, not dangerous ( except to my mental health)....but it was a requirement.

It is the retrospective implementation that is the issue.
That also would make it hard to sack these people under employment law too.

But surely this is now a small number.. would like to thow many are workers are actually refusing vaccination.
Anyone seen a figure
 
qprbeth said:
Yes that is a lovely synopsis.
All jobs have stipulations. Mine was to study for 7 years, not dangerous ( except to my mental health)....but it was a requirement.

It is the retrospective implementation that is the issue.
That also would make it hard to sack these people under employment law too.

But surely this is now a small number.. would like to thow many are workers are actually refusing vaccination.
Anyone seen a figure
Click to expand...
Some information in this article, which looks trustworthy.

https://www.carehome.co.uk/news/art...e-providers-mandatory-new-staff-covid-vaccine

Care home workers were a priority group for vaccination, but a few weeks ago 30% hadn’t been jabbed, nearly 50% in London. But it varies wildly between different care homes.

Care home owners on the news today want to rely on persuasion rather than a mandatory jab. But these owners seem to be the ones who have been successful in driving uptake amongst their staff already.

Looks like a lot of education needs to happen alongside legal measures.
 
Don't dispute it Ellers.

Anti vaxxers are a funny lot.

Quite a few young parents my daughter knows have said not having my child "harmed" by a vaccine.

You challenge with...but "you did have i when you were a child (MMR)

You get the comment...but disease was common then...it isn't now(!!!!)
 
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Hancock: “We Have No Duty Of Care At All To Vaccine Refuseniks!”
Speaking in the House of Commons this afternoon, Health Secretary Matt Hancock suggested that people who refuse a covid-19 jab, will be refused treatment on the NHS.

Hancock was responding to a question from Tory MP Liam Fox about the vaccine status of those currently receiving hospital treatment for the so-called Delta variant.

Hancock said:

“I think that there is a material difference between the states responsibility to offer the vaccine to all adults.

And the duty that we have when somebody has not been offered the vaccine is greater than the duty we have when we have offered a vaccine but somebody has chosen not to take it up. And there is a material difference between those two situations.”

Hancock’s colleague Andrea Leadsom interjected and said:
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“Can I take (it) one step further? If I choose not to say, not to have a yellow fever jab when I am going to a place that suffers yellow fever, the government of the united kingdom takes no interest whatsoever in my illness status. So when my right honourable friend says that he has less of a duty, surely what he means is that he has no duty at all.
It is for people to take up the vaccine.”

Hancock replied:

“Up to a point and the point is should you take that as an absolute principle, then there is a challenge, should there be an overwhelming demand on the NHS that would impact on others. And of course with a communicable disease, there is an impact on others in terms of spreading the disease so we do have to have an eye to that.

That’s why I phrased it as I did. But in terms of the argument that my right honourable friend is putting, I think she and I concur in the broad thrust of the case being made.”

Nobody in the chamber batted an eyelid. The Secretary of State for Health said that those who refuse a covid-19 vaccine, might be left to die if they contract a respiratory infection and the NHS is otherwise engaged, presumably treating those with vaccine injuries. Welcome to dystopia.



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Richie Allen
Richie Allen is the host of The Richie Allen Radio show, Europe's most listened to independent radio show and is a passionate supporter of free speech. He lives in Salford with the future Mrs Allen and their two dogs.
 
 
qprbeth said:
I'm having difficulty with the compulsory vaccination for a job in health care.

Don't attack me because I do not know what to actually think. So thought I would try and thrash it out with you lot ( yes a daft idea)

1. I would like everyone vaccinated so we actually practically stop transmission and so deaths will be hugely reduced.
2. I respect free will.
3. Surgeons do have to have a hepatitis jab before practicing surgery..so why don't care workers
4. But surgeons are highly qualified and can practice other forms of medicine if they don't want to be vaccinated.
5. Care workers are very low paid, and in many cases it is one of the only jobs they can get

Surely we need to find out why they don't want to be vaccinated. As many have witnessed first hand many many deaths in the first wave.

I also wonder how many people this really represents.

Any thoughts please
Click to expand...
I think it’s reasonable to allow free will and free choice.
You’re free to work within an industry that requires you to be responsible, or around, those that are ill or at risk (as long as you have had your jabs to prevent sickness of colleagues and patients). Just as you are free to move to an employer who does not require you to have had your jabs. The choice is there to be made by working adults.

We all have some sense of responsibility whether it be working within a specific type of work and meeting it’s requirements or (using SB’s analogy) driving around with our driving licence, MOT and insurance and meeting the requirements to do so.
 
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From my own experience of working with two health care providers, one was with the Autistic School and Care Home and the other with vulnerable adults.
My own preference would be for them to have the jabs, but any expense should be down to the employers. The majority of the residents I worked with already had underlying health issues and for example, certain times of the year a cold would affect everyone. We would have parents and other family friends visit, cab drivers dropping off the kids to school (not always the same) and we would have contractors visit. Due to how one of the homes was run, we could never get local staff so the majority travelled in by public transport. The company also employed staff who lived in hotter climates so the heating was usually in full blast with windows rarely opened. The fact that the virus HAD the opportunity to travel is the reason why I would like to see all care staff have this. HOWEVER, some care staff may have health reasons why they cannot take the vaccine. This is so tough as it is unfair for staff to lose jobs in these circumstances. Some of the residents I worked with would wipe saliva on door handles or spit (sometimes a known "behaviour for them") but I would have thought that the vaccine would protect care staff immediate family as well.
I am sure that I have read that the Pimlico Plummer owner insisted on all his employees having to have the jab before they could work for him.....yet he hadn't had it.
In my current role as adviser with a company that installs sewage treatment equipment on cruise ships, all engineers have to have the hep b jab (and one or two other before working on boats. The hep B jab was also something the care staff wanted.
i know the jab is a matter of choice, but surely it is better to protect yourself and your family as you do not know what the person next to you may or may not have.
 
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My 20 year old niece has just tested positive for covid. Shes a primary school teacher, had both jabs (chrones) and its the 2nd time shes tested positive. She did last year aswell. She says she feels much worse this time around. Bizarre.
 
I hope she gets better soon Bob. A couple of people I work with have kids at school age, and they have said that as soon as there is a positive case then the kids are sent home. Hope this practice is adopted at your niece's school.
 
bobmid said:
My 20 year old niece has just tested positive for covid. Shes a primary school teacher, had both jabs (chrones) and its the 2nd time shes tested positive. She did last year aswell. She says she feels much worse this time around. Bizarre.
Click to expand...

Chrones? That's not a vaccine I've heard of, nor Google. Hope she gets better quick anyway.
 
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