Off Topic Coronavirus

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finglasqpr said:
Slight exageration of the figures there Ellers. We know Maths is not your best subject.

Yesterday, UK 5,089 new cases, France 6,471.

Just thought I would point out the actual figures.
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I think you need to take more than one days figures Finglas.
Sunday UK 4618 France 26343. Todays French figures are yet to be released...maybe it's another holiday that I forgot? It's not a competition and I am not getting draw into an argument of who's country has done what. Fact is this pandemic is far from over and we don't need to be comparing. The UK figures have fallen significantly which is great news.
 
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finglasqpr said:
I think a ban is a completely different thing to a temporary suspension. Safety comes first for all of us. I would rather they suspended jabs for a few days until it is confirmed it is safe again. Iceland, Norway and Thailand also temporarily suspended the AZ jabs but little or no mention of that in the anti-EU gutter press.

Considering how Astrazeneca has treated the EU up to this point, I don't think any European country owes them anything. They deserve the bad press they are getting for their complete failure to meet their contractual arrangements. A couple of weeks ago, we were expecting 42k jabs to arrive in a delivery. The day before the delivery, AZ advised we would only be getting 26k. When the delivery actually arrived, there was less than 10k jabs in the delivery. If this is how AZ do their business, no wonder a lot of EU countries are extremely annoyed with them. Remember, the EU paid them 365m euros upfront for the contracted vaccines and all they have done is treat the EU like dirt.

As regards a third wave, I noted Italy, Poland and Hungary are currently having high figures. The UK is roughly the same as Spain, Germany, France etc and other European countries are reporting really low figures including Ireland, Croatia and Portugal. The whole Continent is far from suffering a third wave. The vaccine roll out might be slower than the UK but for example, we haven't had a single death the last 3 days here so the effects are starting to be seen. In fact, our death rate is half that of the UK so just as well your vaccine roll out is starting to take effect as your death rate is still number one in Europe.
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The U.K. death rate will probably end up the highest, per million, in Europe for the larger countries at least, a legacy of some poor decision making and perhaps the fattest population.

However, I’m glad I’m here at the moment, the vaccine roll out will have reached all adults by mid June by the look of it, the hospitalisation rates are falling hugely (unlike France) and the decision to stagger raising restrictions looks very sound. Germany is bracing itself for another surge in cases by Easter apparently.

AZ decided to honour some contracts, those which it signed first with partners which contributed to its development costs, ahead of others. Pfizer also delivered far fewer doses than it was contracted to, but that doesn’t get the same press for some reason. Both firms overestimated their production capability, stupid but not malicious. I’m not a fan of AZ, and for this vaccine their trials were poorly designed and very poorly executed, leading to the justifiable doubts about efficacy in the elderly etc. However, real world evidence has shown that these doubts were groundless. The EUs issue is a disastrous procurement programme coupled with extremely stupid comments from various politicians, trying to divert blame from themselves no doubt. The current fuss about nothing will set their vaccination attempts back yet further, and absolutely no one benefits from this.
 
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ELLERS said:
I think you need to take more than one days figures Finglas.
Sunday UK 4618 France 26343. Todays French figures are yet to be released...maybe it's another holiday that I forgot? It's not a competition and I am not getting draw into an argument of who's country has done what. Fact is this pandemic is far from over and we don't need to be comparing. The UK figures have fallen significantly which is great news.
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Thats fair enough Ellers. I just seen the French figures for today and they are 29k so I accept their figures are out of control again. Apologies for only looking at one day. The pandemic will only be under control when all the countries surrounding us are fully vaccinated.
 
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sb_73 said:
The U.K. death rate will probably end up the highest, per million, in Europe for the larger countries at least, a legacy of some poor decision making and perhaps the fattest population.

However, I’m glad I’m here at the moment, the vaccine roll out will have reached all adults by mid June by the look of it, the hospitalisation rates are falling hugely (unlike France) and the decision to stagger raising restrictions looks very sound. Germany is bracing itself for another surge in cases by Easter apparently.

AZ decided to honour some contracts, those which it signed first with partners which contributed to its development costs, ahead of others. Pfizer also delivered far fewer doses than it was contracted to, but that doesn’t get the same press for some reason. Both firms overestimated their production capability, stupid but not malicious. I’m not a fan of AZ, and for this vaccine their trials were poorly designed and very poorly executed, leading to the justifiable doubts about efficacy in the elderly etc. However, real world evidence has shown that these doubts were groundless. The EUs issue is a disastrous procurement programme coupled with extremely stupid comments from various politicians, trying to divert blame from themselves no doubt. The current fuss about nothing will set their vaccination attempts back yet further, and absolutely no one benefits from this.
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I accept most of what you say Stan.

My point is, Astrazenaca's reputation amongst the EU27 is bad for a reason. They failed to deliver as per the terms of their contracts. They even wanted to export vaccine produced at their EU plants to countries like Mexico, Australia and Canada while leaving EU countries short millions in their expected deliveries. Maybe their plants in the UK should have supplied Commonwealth countries like Australia and Canada?
 
finglasqpr said:
Thats fair enough Ellers. I just seen the French figures for today and they are 29k so I accept their figures are out of control again. Apologies for only looking at one day. The pandemic will only be under control when all the countries surrounding us are fully vaccinated.
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Finglas I just want the thing to be over and that includes all the Worlds countries. I don’t get pleasure seeing these stats and I really hope France figures go down. I’m just a bit miffed with all this AZ stuff. :emoticon-0148-yes:
 
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finglasqpr said:
I accept most of what you say Stan.

My point is, Astrazenaca's reputation amongst the EU27 is bad for a reason. They failed to deliver as per the terms of their contracts. They even wanted to export vaccine produced at their EU plants to countries like Mexico, Australia and Canada while leaving EU countries short millions in their expected deliveries. Maybe their plants in the UK should have supplied Commonwealth countries like Australia and Canada?
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You do know that the U.K. has also had reduced deliveries from both AZ and Pfizer, don’t you? Amazingly, given our populist government, they haven’t taken the populist approach to this ie blaming everyone, especially those outside the country, that they can. They have just accepted that **** happens, because it does, and understood that these companies are our partners in fighting a pandemic, not enemies.

Manufacturing, especially manufacturing stuff like vaccines, which is extremely complex and dependent on lots of things from availability of raw materials to biological reactions to contamination, can go wrong. Especially if it has been set up in a timescale previously believed to be unimaginably short and producing unheard of volumes. It seems to me that some people in leadership positions in the EU and in EU countries struggle to understand this and have taken the populist approach to supply issues, which is banging a big drum and screaming foul. I have no doubt that AZ has cocked up on communications and customer management, but EU countries continually moaning and threatening them for not supplying enough while at the same time saying they don’t think it’s efficacious/safe and building up stockpiles of unused and soon to be time expired product because they can’t persuade people to take it is frankly bizarre. No wonder AZ might prefer to meet contracts with customers which haven’t very publically hurled abuse at them. AZ has delivered over 15 million doses to EU countries, over half of them are unused to date.

I also understand that AZ is currently supplying its vaccine at or close to cost price, and will continue to do so for the duration of the pandemic, while Pfizer and Moderna are most definitely including a large profit margin in their prices (as is their right, no complaint from me, they are not charities, and they took on a massive risk in doing this - Sanofi knows to its cost that failure was most certainly an option). I bet AZ would like to make more cash, but the way the development of this drug by Oxford was funded, including large chunks of U.K. government cash, and the influence of the pretty altruistic Oxford team has a large part to play in this (don’t feel too warm and fuzzy about the Oxford people, they will make fortunes repurposing the vaccine tech for other things, and have already started).

I’m not an apologist for AZ, as I said above. I don’t like the company, I’ve had professional run ins with them (in the distant past, I won), and think their CEO is an attention seeking muppet. But there are two sides to every story. Maybe the learning is that large bureaucracies representing many different and competing national interests are not best placed to design and manage vital commercial contracts during an emergency. It’s pretty clear that the EU has lost the confidence of its member states on this thing, hence the fragmented and contradictory responses and noises coming from the 27.

Sorry for the droning on and on......
 
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sb_73 said:
You do know that the U.K. has also had reduced deliveries from both AZ and Pfizer, don’t you? Amazingly, given our populist government, they haven’t taken the populist approach to this ie blaming everyone, especially those outside the country, that they can. They have just accepted that **** happens, because it does, and understood that these companies are our partners in fighting a pandemic, not enemies.

Manufacturing, especially manufacturing stuff like vaccines, which is extremely complex and dependent on lots of things from availability of raw materials to biological reactions to contamination, can go wrong. Especially if it has been set up in a timescale previously believed to be unimaginably short and producing unheard of volumes. It seems to me that some people in leadership positions in the EU and in EU countries struggle to understand this and have taken the populist approach to supply issues, which is banging a big drum and screaming foul. I have no doubt that AZ has cocked up on communications and customer management, but EU countries continually moaning and threatening them for not supplying enough while at the same time saying they don’t think it’s efficacious/safe and building up stockpiles of unused and soon to be time expired product because they can’t persuade people to take it is frankly bizarre. No wonder AZ might prefer to meet contracts with customers which haven’t very publically hurled abuse at them. AZ has delivered over 15 million doses to EU countries, over half of them are unused to date.

I also understand that AZ is currently supplying its vaccine at or close to cost price, and will continue to do so for the duration of the pandemic, while Pfizer and Moderna are most definitely including a large profit margin in their prices (as is their right, no complaint from me, they are not charities, and they took on a massive risk in doing this - Sanofi knows to its cost that failure was most certainly an option). I bet AZ would like to make more cash, but the way the development of this drug by Oxford was funded, including large chunks of U.K. government cash, and the influence of the pretty altruistic Oxford team has a large part to play in this (don’t feel too warm and fuzzy about the Oxford people, they will make fortunes repurposing the vaccine tech for other things, and have already started).

I’m not an apologist for AZ, as I said above. I don’t like the company, I’ve had professional run ins with them (in the distant past, I won), and think their CEO is an attention seeking muppet. But there are two sides to every story. Maybe the learning is that large bureaucracies representing many different and competing national interests are not best placed to design and manage vital commercial contracts during an emergency. It’s pretty clear that the EU has lost the confidence of its member states on this thing, hence the fragmented and contradictory responses and noises coming from the 27.

Sorry for the droning on and on......
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OK Stan, thanks for your insight. I don't think AZ are treating all of their customers in the same manner. That company are directly responsible for the vaccine nationalism that is going on.

First quarter 2021 expected deliveries to EU countries
AZ - 90m doses - actually delivered 30m
Moderna - 10m - actually delivered 10m
Pfizer - 66m - actually delivered 66m

As you can see, AZ delivered only one third of their contracted deliveries. The Two AZ plants in the UK were expected to deliver some vaccines to the EU, not one single vaccine was exported from AZ plants to the EU. By contrast, the AZ EU plants exported 10m doses to the UK in the last 6 weeks alone - despite leaving the EU short of 60m vaccines in quarter one.

Quarter two 2021 expected vaccine deliveries to EU countries
AZ - 180m doses - expected to arrive 70m
Moderna - 35m doses - expected to arrive 35m
Pfizer - 200m doses - expected to arrive - 200m doses
Johnson & Johnson - 55m does - 55m doses expected but there is some doubt they will meet the full 55m.

Again, AZ are expecting a shortfall of 110m vaccines to EU countries. The actual number that arrive will probably be far less than 70m. Meanwhile, Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson and Johnson adhere to their contract arrangements.

These numbers may help you to realise that AZ are not being very ethical with how they are treating the EU.
 
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finglasqpr said:
OK Stan, thanks for your insight. I don't think AZ are treating all of their customers in the same manner. That company are directly responsible for the vaccine nationalism that is going on.

First quarter 2021 expected deliveries to EU countries
AZ - 90m doses - actually delivered 30m
Moderna - 10m - actually delivered 10m
Pfizer - 66m - actually delivered 66m

As you can see, AZ delivered only one third of their contracted deliveries. The Two AZ plants in the UK were expected to deliver some vaccines to the EU, not one single vaccine was exported from AZ plants to the EU. By contrast, the AZ EU plants exported 10m doses to the UK in the last 6 weeks alone - despite leaving the EU short of 60m vaccines in quarter one.

Quarter two 2021 expected vaccine deliveries to EU countries
AZ - 180m doses - expected to arrive 70m
Moderna - 35m doses - expected to arrive 35m
Pfizer - 200m doses - expected to arrive - 200m doses
Johnson & Johnson - 55m does - 55m doses expected but there is some doubt they will meet the full 55m.

Again, AZ are expecting a shortfall of 110m vaccines to EU countries. The actual number that arrive will probably be far less than 70m. Meanwhile, Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson and Johnson adhere to their contract arrangements.

These numbers may help you to realise that AZ are not being very ethical with how they are treating the EU.
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Ok, I don’t think you read my post. That’s fine, it’s not important.
 
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Meanwhile, the Aussie PM asks Brussels to send 1m Astrazeneca vaccines to Australia so they can forward them on to Papua New Guinea as they have had a new outbreak. On your bike sunshine. You couldn't make this stuff up. As a Commonwealth country, maybe Australia should be asking London and not Brussels?
 
Nick Gutteridge

@nickgutteridge

Von der Leyen says the EU could seize production of vaccines and suspend intellectual property rights. 'All options are on the table. We are in the crisis of the century and I'm not ruling out anything for now. We have to make sure Europeans are vaccinated as soon as possible.'
 
kiwiqpr said:
Nick Gutteridge

@nickgutteridge

Von der Leyen says the EU could seize production of vaccines and suspend intellectual property rights. 'All options are on the table. We are in the crisis of the century and I'm not ruling out anything for now. We have to make sure Europeans are vaccinated as soon as possible.'
Click to expand...
Not sure seizing production would be a good thing but in principle, if AZ arn't playing ball and treating all of their customers equally, it is time the EU took some sort of decisive action.
 
finglasqpr said:
OK Stan, thanks for your insight. I don't think AZ are treating all of their customers in the same manner. That company are directly responsible for the vaccine nationalism that is going on.

First quarter 2021 expected deliveries to EU countries
AZ - 90m doses - actually delivered 30m
Moderna - 10m - actually delivered 10m
Pfizer - 66m - actually delivered 66m

As you can see, AZ delivered only one third of their contracted deliveries. The Two AZ plants in the UK were expected to deliver some vaccines to the EU, not one single vaccine was exported from AZ plants to the EU. By contrast, the AZ EU plants exported 10m doses to the UK in the last 6 weeks alone - despite leaving the EU short of 60m vaccines in quarter one.

Quarter two 2021 expected vaccine deliveries to EU countries
AZ - 180m doses - expected to arrive 70m
Moderna - 35m doses - expected to arrive 35m
Pfizer - 200m doses - expected to arrive - 200m doses
Johnson & Johnson - 55m does - 55m doses expected but there is some doubt they will meet the full 55m.

Again, AZ are expecting a shortfall of 110m vaccines to EU countries. The actual number that arrive will probably be far less than 70m. Meanwhile, Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson and Johnson adhere to their contract arrangements.

These numbers may help you to realise that AZ are not being very ethical with how they are treating the EU.
Click to expand...

As with many things pertaining to the EU Fingy, you try to defend the indefensible mate.
They're having a complete mare mate and continually play politics with the vaccine.
 
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kiwiqpr said:
Nick Gutteridge

@nickgutteridge

Von der Leyen says the EU could seize production of vaccines and suspend intellectual property rights. 'All options are on the table. We are in the crisis of the century and I'm not ruling out anything for now. We have to make sure Europeans are vaccinated as soon as possible.'
Click to expand...

I'm not sure anyone has ever been quite as far out of her depth as this woman.
 
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rangercol said:
As with many things pertaining to the EU Fingy, you try to defend the indefensible mate.
They're having a complete mare mate and continually play politics with the vaccine.
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I think the problem is AZ Col and their refusal to treat all their customers equally. They started playing politics with the vaccine by treating different customers differently.

AZ are having the mare although I agree, there is a lot the EU could have done differently.
 
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