Off Topic Coronavirus

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qprbeth said:
The questions are getting harder...and this is harder to explain.
.
So you get a dose of the virus...and your body should mount a straight forward response...You get ill, and after few days your immune system gets going and takes care of the virus...and you make a recovery. In a couple of weeks you are over it...like a normal cold...( A common cold is caused by a different Corona virus). That is what happens in 70-80 % if cases...some don't even get ill.


What has taken people by surprise is that many people who get serious Covid, or who get prolonged Covid ( longCovid like your wife)... something else goes on.

Everything starts normally, your body raises a response but for some reason the response goes a bit nuclear. Other factors are released. These are called cytokines and give rise to a "cytokine storm ) This is a bit like corporal Jones in dad's army running round panicking and shouting "don't panic, don't panic.

This is a huge destructive response when the immune system is really really worked up and destroys your own body cells that it thinks is hiding the virus...causing destruction of your lungs and other tissue where it thinks the virus is e.g. nervous system, heart and kidneys...the virus also cause your blood to be sticky and that causes the immune cells attack that too.

Some people die from this combination of viral attack and cytokine storm.
It is also why the disease often is seen in two parts...the flu/cold first week,,,that in many marks the full disease....but in some a second week shows a steady decline into breathlessness and ITU.

Many people get over the cytokine storm second week...but are left with residual damage that may take months to years to repair.

So finally the doctor is suggesting that your wife should be wary of the vaccine as it could once again over stimulate the already hyperactive immune system again.

In people who have seen the virus but just raised an ordinary response.....this will not be a problem...as the immune system has already learnt to control the response.

I hope that makes some sense
Click to expand...
Very interesting Beth. Thank you. There will be hundreds of thousands of people who will be unable to take this vaccine without further study and trials. My wife being one of them. Neurological diseases are one of medicines mysteries and still to this day, debate arises in conditions such as MS, Lupus and much more. So could some of the most vulnerable in society actually not be able to take a vaccine?
 
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qprbeth said:
The questions are getting harder...and this is harder to explain.
.
So you get a dose of the virus...and your body should mount a straight forward response...You get ill, and after few days your immune system gets going and takes care of the virus...and you make a recovery. In a couple of weeks you are over it...like a normal cold...( A common cold is caused by a different Corona virus). That is what happens in 70-80 % if cases...some don't even get ill.


What has taken people by surprise is that many people who get serious Covid, or who get prolonged Covid ( longCovid like your wife)... something else goes on.

Everything starts normally, your body raises a response but for some reason the response goes a bit nuclear. Other factors are released. These are called cytokines and give rise to a "cytokine storm ) This is a bit like corporal Jones in dad's army running round panicking and shouting "don't panic, don't panic.

This is a huge destructive response when the immune system is really really worked up and destroys your own body cells that it thinks is hiding the virus...causing destruction of your lungs and other tissue where it thinks the virus is e.g. nervous system, heart and kidneys...the virus also cause your blood to be sticky and that causes the immune cells attack that too.

Some people die from this combination of viral attack and cytokine storm.
It is also why the disease often is seen in two parts...the flu/cold first week,,,that in many marks the full disease....but in some a second week shows a steady decline into breathlessness and ITU.

Many people get over the cytokine storm second week...but are left with residual damage that may take months to years to repair.

So finally the doctor is suggesting that your wife should be wary of the vaccine as it could once again over stimulate the already hyperactive immune system again.

In people who have seen the virus but just raised an ordinary response.....this will not be a problem...as the immune system has already learnt to control the response.

I hope that makes some sense
Click to expand...

Excellent, thanks Beth.
 
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Didley Squat said:
True that Musty but they are still letting people in from overseas which has caused this latest outbreak and the shutting of borders.

why make the locals suffer but still let in so called movie stars and crew?

l was talking to a doctor who is treating a terminally ill man ( cancer ) who is in hospital in Sydney.

The man wants to return home to his family in Queensland but the Qld won’t allow it.

They will allow 50,000 unmasked football fans to watch a game but not allow a dying man to see him family for the last time.

Politics at its best.
Click to expand...

Totally wrong Didley. The latest outbreaks are in NSW and Victoria, not QLD hence QLD once again closing the borders to ppl from certain hotspot areas, perhaps the gentleman you refer to is from a hotspot or you are quoting old news from months ago. EVERY traveller from overseas MUST go into mandatory Hotel quarantine for 14 days at their own expense.
 
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sb_73 said:
Here we go, over promising under delivering central strikes again. Chris Whitty writes to doctors to tell them that ‘shortages of vaccine will be a reality for months’. Clearly it’s all over by Easter is a bit optimistic then Boris, who told us tens of millions of doses would be available soon.

Apparently the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation now says that a single jab of the vaccine gives 90% protection for the Pfizer jab and 73% protection for the AZ jab. A reminder, Pfizer itself says there is no data on how long protection lasts. Somehow the JCVI has manipulated the figures to make a single jab of the AZ vaccine more effective than two jabs (62%). And of course, Jonathan Van Tam tells us we can’t compare the efficacy of different drugs, so I’m not sure what ‘protection’ means in either of these cases. Outstanding. At least they do say, for both vaccines, that it is recommended that both jabs are given. But why, if one jab is more effective or at least as effective as two?

I have the strong impression that they are making this up as they go along.
Click to expand...

Once again we are the victims of buffoons or liars. None of the people in government would survive long if they were employed in the real world.
 
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YorkshireHoopster said:
Once again we are the victims of buffoons or liars. None of the people in government would survive long if they were employed in the real world.
Click to expand...
Think it's a mixture of both. In all fairness to Johnson, when he filled the cabinet with nodding yes people with little to no experience, he didnt see this pandemic coming. Or maybe he did and wasnt arsed. That education secretary fella is unbelievably poor.
 
qprbeth said:
The questions are getting harder...and this is harder to explain.
.
So you get a dose of the virus...and your body should mount a straight forward response...You get ill, and after few days your immune system gets going and takes care of the virus...and you make a recovery. In a couple of weeks you are over it...like a normal cold...( A common cold is caused by a different Corona virus). That is what happens in 70-80 % if cases...some don't even get ill.


What has taken people by surprise is that many people who get serious Covid, or who get prolonged Covid ( longCovid like your wife)... something else goes on.

Everything starts normally, your body raises a response but for some reason the response goes a bit nuclear. Other factors are released. These are called cytokines and give rise to a "cytokine storm ) This is a bit like corporal Jones in dad's army running round panicking and shouting "don't panic, don't panic.

This is a huge destructive response when the immune system is really really worked up and destroys your own body cells that it thinks is hiding the virus...causing destruction of your lungs and other tissue where it thinks the virus is e.g. nervous system, heart and kidneys...the virus also cause your blood to be sticky and that causes the immune cells attack that too.

Some people die from this combination of viral attack and cytokine storm.
It is also why the disease often is seen in two parts...the flu/cold first week,,,that in many marks the full disease....but in some a second week shows a steady decline into breathlessness and ITU.

Many people get over the cytokine storm second week...but are left with residual damage that may take months to years to repair.

So finally the doctor is suggesting that your wife should be wary of the vaccine as it could once again over stimulate the already hyperactive immune system again.

In people who have seen the virus but just raised an ordinary response.....this will not be a problem...as the immune system has already learnt to control the response.

I hope that makes some sense
Click to expand...

An excellent explanation thanks Beth.
 
bobmid said:
Very interesting Beth. Thank you. There will be hundreds of thousands of people who will be unable to take this vaccine without further study and trials. My wife being one of them. Neurological diseases are one of medicines mysteries and still to this day, debate arises in conditions such as MS, Lupus and much more. So could some of the most vulnerable in society actually not be able to take a vaccine?
Click to expand...


Funny you should say that Bobmid...when I started as. Neuroimmunolgist 40 years ago...I was told neurology was a speciality in which you don't normally cure but simply care and treat the symptoms. It has changed but not a lot...we cannot cure MND, or MS or Parkinson, we treat.

So to answer your question...the advice to patients with neurological patients...is talk to your doctor. Many neurologicsl disorders the patient are at the top of the vaccination list but care is taken with patients who has a neurology diseases caused by autoimmunity (where the body turns on itself like lupus, myasthenia, rhematoid arthritis). They are told to have a vaccination that does not involved an attenuated virus......at the moment that is not an issue with what we have available.
But all patients are different...so you must speak to your own consultant.
If you want I can pm you Bobmid the information that the we are sending out to our patients..
 
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qprbeth said:
Funny you should say that Bobmid...when I started as. Neuroimmunolgist 40 years ago...I was told neurology was a speciality in which you don't normally cure but simply care and treat the symptoms. It has changed but not a lot...we cannot cure MND, or MS or Parkinson, we treat.

So to answer your question...the advice to patients with neurological patients...is talk to your doctor. Many neurologicsl disorders the patient are at the top of the vaccination list but care is taken with patients who has a neurology diseases caused by autoimmunity (where the body turns on itself like lupus, myasthenia, rhematoid arthritis). They are told to have a vaccination that does not involved an attenuated virus......at the moment that is not an issue with what we have available.
But all patients are different...so you must speak to your own consultant.
If you want I can pm you Bobmid the information that the we are sending out to our patients..
Click to expand...
Yes please do that would be very much appreciated.
A lot of treatments for MS (infact nearly all) are specifically aimed at symptoms of the disease rather than general treatment as all suffer differently and at different stages. The majority suppress the immune system to (as you say) stop it attacking itself. How can the vaccine possibly work on someone who's immune system is suppressed or someones immune system that basically attacks itself? Thanks Beth
 
QPR999 said:
Enter your postcode in the tool below to find how many covid deaths since March have occurred in your local area.

Deaths involving COVID-19 - Interactive map - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)
Click to expand...
It’s pretty shocking to see how the numbers per 100k have shot up in just a few weeks.
Areas of Essex over 1k; outer suburbs of London 600+; even our own area of Dorset has tripled to 150+ and awaiting the school return and new variant impact to make that shoot up further.
The bods at the top better be working 24/7 to plan that roll-out of the vaccine efficiently.
It will be interesting to see what the strategy will be. So many different options of attack after frontline/most at risk is dealt with.
 
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