Off Topic Coronavirus

[Ninj]

If only the Chinese had been honest from the start. I do wonder whether there were other variants of the virus out there rather than just the one. Nobody knows and doubtful whether the truth will ever be told..
I am no scientist. I just live with two 80 plus year old and have seen my partner 3 times this year - health reasons and lockdowns being part of the reason behind this. If things had been different maybe we / I would have relocated. If anything this virus has taught me is to value the human race a little more, keep protecting myself and family as much as I can and appreciate the area I live in. I use face coverings and wear gloves and can read the words Entrance Only and Exit and do everything I can to protect my loved ones.
My own opinion is that cummings behaviour undermined everything others had been doing and made the govt a little less credible. Starmer and co are quite happy to criticize but offer no alternatives.
However my parents had vaccine number one - their second is due in just under a month - hopefully that will give them the confidence to go back to how they were, and result in me travelling (when lockdowns / Tier restrictions are lifted) to see my other half.
Lets all hope that 2021 is the year the virus is beaten down and we can all go back to debating football.
Stay Safe my Not 606 friends

 

[qprbeth]

Ninj..there are a lot of variants out there at least 27 when I last looked.
This one seems to have the ability to transmit more efficiently.
It does not seem to give you any worse symptoms. The death rate does not seem to have changed.

Heaven forbid if the virus finds a variety that is better at killing

 

[sb_73]

Right now heard that my Mums second Pfizer jab has been postponed for three months. I’ve told her it’s not important, but I think it’s a disgrace, as do many GPs, who point out not only that we are dealing with the most vulnerable here and also that it’s a colossal waste of energy to cancel existing appointments only to reschedule them later.

From Pfizer:
Pfizer released a statement on Wednesday saying that its vaccine was not intended to be taken 12 weeks apart. It said the vaccine's safety and efficacy had not been evaluated on any dosing schedule other than 21 days between jabs. It added that 'there are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days'.*

So this has got nothing to do with science or evidence any more, and everything to do with panic amongst the political classes and their crap advisers.

Perhaps I’ll start encouraging my company to start submitting drugs without any ****ing evidence at all in the UK, as clearly it’s not important.

*Bet that AZ hasn’t got any data on this either, as otherwise we would have seen it.

 

[rangercol]

Right now heard that my Mums second Pfizer jab has been postponed for three months. I’ve told her it’s not important, but I think it’s a disgrace, as do many GPs, who point out not only that we are dealing with the most vulnerable here and also that it’s a colossal waste of energy to cancel existing appointments only to reschedule them later.

From Pfizer:
Pfizer released a statement on Wednesday saying that its vaccine was not intended to be taken 12 weeks apart. It said the vaccine's safety and efficacy had not been evaluated on any dosing schedule other than 21 days between jabs. It added that 'there are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days'.*

So this has got nothing to do with science or evidence any more, and everything to do with panic amongst the political classes and their crap advisers.

Perhaps I’ll start encouraging my company to start submitting drugs without any ****ing evidence at all in the UK, as clearly it’s not important.

*Bet that AZ hasn’t got any data on this either, as otherwise we would have seen it.

****'s sake.
What reason was given for the postponement?

 

[ELLERS]

Germany expected to extend lockdown as daily deaths pass 1,000 for first time
Crap what has happened there? Last time I looked they were doing okay?

 

[sb_73]

****'s sake.
What reason was given for the postponement?

It’s the government policy that now everyone only has one jab then waits three months until the next, so more people can have a single jab while supplies last. Even though there hasn’t been a single trial of any vaccine which tests this gap between doses.

It’s ****ing bullshit of the highest order, and it’s not about protecting the vulnerable, it’s about protecting the NHS. They have done a back of a *** packet calculation that giving more people one jab might reduce the number of hospital admissions because the disease they get from the virus will be less serious. But there is zero evidence behind this supposition, it’s all about the fear that has driven policy making all the way through this pandemic, that the sainted NHS won’t be able to cope.

So, despite what the company that makes the ****ing vaccine says, they reckon that it’s better for a few old biddies, who have actually looked after themselves brilliantly for the last nine months, have sub optimal protection if it might (no proof) reduce the pressure on hospitals.

I’m ****ing livid, mainly for my mum, but also with the contempt these ****s treat us with.

 

[rangercol]

It’s the government policy that now everyone only has one jab then waits three months until the next, so more people can have a single jab while supplies last.

It’s ****ing bullshit of the highest order, and it’s not about protecting the vulnerable, it’s about protecting the NHS. They have done a back of a *** packet calculation that giving more people one jab might reduce the number of hospital admissions because the disease they get from the virus will be less serious. But there is zero evidence behind this supposition, it’s all about the fear that has driven policy making all the way through this pandemic, that the sainted NHS won’t be able to cope.

So, despite what the company that makes the ****ing vaccine says, they reckon that it’s better for a few old biddies, who have actually looked after themselves brilliantly for the last nine months, have sub optimal protection if it might (no proof) reduce the pressure on hospitals.

Im ****ing livid, mainly for my mum, but also with the contempt these ****s treat us with.

They're even going to **** up the vaccine aren't they?
****ing hell.

 

[Tramore Ranger]

It’s the government policy that now everyone only has one jab then waits three months until the next, so more people can have a single jab while supplies last.

It’s ****ing bullshit of the highest order, and it’s not about protecting the vulnerable, it’s about protecting the NHS. They have done a back of a *** packet calculation that giving more people one jab might reduce the number of hospital admissions because the disease they get from the virus will be less serious. But there is zero evidence behind this supposition, it’s all about the fear that has driven policy making all the way through this pandemic, that the sainted NHS won’t be able to cope.

So, despite what the company that makes the ****ing vaccine says, they reckon that it’s better for a few old biddies, who have actually looked after themselves brilliantly for the last nine months, have sub optimal protection if it might (no proof) reduce the pressure on hospitals.

I’m ****ing livid, mainly for my mum, but also with the contempt these ****s treat us with.

What a dogs dinner....
Seems it was the UK medicines regulator changed its guidance to the longer interval..... I thought it was independent of government.

 

[sb_73]

What a dogs dinner....
Seems it was the UK medicines regulator changed its guidance to the longer interval..... I thought it was independent of government.

I understand that the times are extreme and we need flexibility, but if I took a drug to these twats and suggested we have a dosing schedule that we haven’t even tested in any trial setting, they would not only throw us out but also probably fine us hugely. There is a bit of logic behind their guesswork but that is not enough when it comes to medicines, or at least that’s what I have been telling my company’s research scientists for the last 20 years. You can’t just say ‘it’s obvious if y then z’ even if it is ****ing obvious, you must have evidence in a well designed, transparent trial, to prove it, otherwise instant rejection.

But no longer it seems, at least not in this country.

I probably shouldn’t be posting, can’t remember, even during this year of cock up, lying and incompetence, a time when I’ve been this angry.

 

[Tramore Ranger]

I understand that the times are extreme and we need flexibility, but if I took a drug to these twats and suggested we have a dosing schedule that we haven’t even tested in any trial setting, they would not only throw us out but also probably fine us hugely. There is a bit of logic behind their guesswork but that is not enough when it comes to medicines, or at least that’s what I have been telling my company’s research scientists for the last 20 years. You can’t just say ‘it’s obvious if y then z’ even if it is ****ing obvious, you must have evidence in a well designed, transparent trial, to prove it, otherwise instant rejection.

But no longer it seems, at least not in this country.

I probably shouldn’t be posting, can’t remember, even during this year of cock up, lying and incompetence, a time when I’ve been this angry.

So it's really Pfizer and the UK medicines regulator who've cocked this up?

 

[Stroller]

Following my last last bowel cancer consultation, I emailed the clinical nurse today to say that I wanted to go ahead with the recommended surgery.

Just got this response...

Thanks for your email. We will add you to our surgical list. Currently all surgeries are kept on hold to be further reviewed in 2 weeks.

 

[sb_73]

So it's really Pfizer and the UK medicines regulator who've cocked this up?

No it’s not Pfizer at all, quite the reverse. They are saying that there is no evidence to change the schedule of dosing that they tested in the trials and that they don’t know how long protection will last on a single dose. They are saying very publicly ‘not our idea at all’.The British government and their medical/scientific advisers are ignoring what the real experts in the vaccine are telling them, for overtly political reasons it seems to me.

 

[sb_73]

Following my last last bowel cancer consultation, I emailed the clinical nurse today to say that I wanted to go ahead with the recommended surgery.

Just got this response...

Thanks for your email. We will add you to our surgical list. Currently all surgeries are kept on hold to be further reviewed in 2 weeks.

Thought you were in a COVID free hospital for this surgery?

 

[qprbeth]

I understand that the times are extreme and we need flexibility, but if I took a drug to these twats and suggested we have a dosing schedule that we haven’t even tested in any trial setting, they would not only throw us out but also probably fine us hugely. There is a bit of logic behind their guesswork but that is not enough when it comes to medicines, or at least that’s what I have been telling my company’s research scientists for the last 20 years. You can’t just say ‘it’s obvious if y then z’ even if it is ****ing obvious, you must have evidence in a well designed, transparent trial, to prove it, otherwise instant rejection.

But no longer it seems, at least not in this country.

I probably shouldn’t be posting, can’t remember, even during this year of cock up, lying and incompetence, a time when I’ve been this angry.

I so agree with Stan over this.
This is pure guess work...based on a tiny bit of theory.

In my previous existence I used to raise antibodies in rabbits for scientific reasons ( antibodies bind tightly to the things they are raised against..and you can label them with fluorescent things and so "see" them under the microscope.
We wanted good antibodies...

Inject once with the thing you want to get antibodies against...
you get a blip of a response...wait 3 weeks... Inject again...
You get a big big response.

The 3 rd injection and the response is maximal.

So that is the premise. One injection primes the body.
The second gives you a large and long lasting response.
And when you see the virus (3rd event) the response is maximal. That is the theory.

In old vunerable people, whose immune system is old and inefficient, the first response may be just minimal and of little effect.

Whoever is advising them needs to provide solid evidence that this will work ( and I don't think there is much out there).

Oh and when people who have had one dose of the vaccine start dying...AZ and Pizer will be walking away shouting we told you not to mess around with the formulation...and they will be right

 

[sb_73]

I so agree with Stan over this.
This is pure guess work...based on a tiny bit of theory.

In my previous existence I used to raise antibodies in rabbits for scientific reasons ( antibodies bind tightly to the things they are raised against..and you can label them with fluorescent things and so "see" them under the microscope.
We wanted good antibodies...

Inject once with the thing you want to get antibodies against...
you get a blip of a response...wait 3 weeks... Inject again...
You get a big big response.

The 3 rd injection and the response is maximal.

So that is the premise. One injection primes the body.
The second gives you a large and long lasting response.
And when you see the virus (3rd event) the response is maximal. That is the theory.

In old vunerable people, whose immune system is old and inefficient, the first response may be just minimal and of little effect.

Whoever is advising them needs to provide solid evidence that this will work ( and I don't think there is much out there).

Oh and when people who have had one dose of the vaccine start dying...AZ and Pizer will be walking away shouting we told you not to mess around with the formulation...and they will be right

Thanks Beth, sometimes I doubt my own sanity, not being a scientist just being around scientists for many years.

Pfizer are playing clean on this one. Not heard a squeak out of ‘British’ AZ or their French CEO, who has been spouting bollocks for sometime on this subject.

 

[Stroller]

Thought you were in a COVID free hospital for this surgery?

Yeah, that's what they said. No reason given for this hiatus, but maybe they have to divert resources. I'm not particularly concerned at this stage, but feel this might be a sign of what's to come in the next few weeks.

 

[Steelmonkey]

Right now heard that my Mums second Pfizer jab has been postponed for three months. I’ve told her it’s not important, but I think it’s a disgrace, as do many GPs, who point out not only that we are dealing with the most vulnerable here and also that it’s a colossal waste of energy to cancel existing appointments only to reschedule them later.

From Pfizer:
Pfizer released a statement on Wednesday saying that its vaccine was not intended to be taken 12 weeks apart. It said the vaccine's safety and efficacy had not been evaluated on any dosing schedule other than 21 days between jabs. It added that 'there are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days'.*

So this has got nothing to do with science or evidence any more, and everything to do with panic amongst the political classes and their crap advisers.

Perhaps I’ll start encouraging my company to start submitting drugs without any ****ing evidence at all in the UK, as clearly it’s not important.

*Bet that AZ hasn’t got any data on this either, as otherwise we would have seen it.

Outrageous. Surely, when you receive say a million doses, and they need to be given three weeks apart, you reserve them for half a million people - not a million, and then hope you can get your hands on another million to top it up - you're just chasing your tail. Pure incompetance, yet again.

And people wonder why the finger gets pointed at those in charge....

 

[Steelmonkey]

Following my last last bowel cancer consultation, I emailed the clinical nurse today to say that I wanted to go ahead with the recommended surgery.

Just got this response...

Thanks for your email. We will add you to our surgical list. Currently all surgeries are kept on hold to be further reviewed in 2 weeks.

Yet again, a failure by those in charge to comprehend the seriousness of the situation for yourself - it's a disgrace that they are putting critical surgery on hold. Whilst you may feel you can wait "a couple of weeks" I'm certain there will be others whose lives depend on immediate surgery, and I'd hope that these aren't delayed. What a ****ing disaster.

I hope you're ok pal?

 

[Tramore Ranger]

Ok so I get that the MHRA is funded partly by government for some of its work but it's medicines regulation is funded through fees from the pharmaceutical industry.....so I don't see where there's government interference in this decision as it was made by the MHRA working group after reviewing data.......

 

[Stroller]

Yet again, a failure by those in charge to comprehend the seriousness of the situation for yourself - it's a disgrace that they are putting critical surgery on hold. Whilst you may feel you can wait "a couple of weeks" I'm certain there will be others whose lives depend on immediate surgery, and I'd hope that these aren't delayed. What a ****ing disaster.

I hope you're ok pal?

Yeah, I'm fine thanks mate. My situation isn't critical at this point, but as you say there will be others for whom this kind of delay could prove fatal.