Off Topic Coronavirus

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colognehornet said:
I would agree that animal rights in China are non existent Goldie. I would also say that China is a vast country containing many different cultural practices which are, mostly, uncontrollable from Peking. I am sure that the central government in Peking is highly embarrassed by local customs of bat eating etc. but a country of this size cannot control everything which happens within its borders (or practices which are tolerated by local authorities). All the evidence suggests that Peking was highly annoyed with Wuhan and that an element of punishment was involved in their strict lockdown. China's biggest crime is simply being too big to control its citizens - and if they did stamp down on the sort of local practices which caused this epidemic, then they would open themselves to other criticisms.

At some stage this pandemic will be over (all pandemics end eventually) maybe next summer. Then we will all breath a sigh of relief and want to get back to normal - things like going to the cinema. But will the local cinema be there ? Or the local theatre ? Will the restaurants and pubs still be in business ? Or any of those organizations specialized in adult education ? Local sports centres ? Will there be any musicians still left ? Or local football clubs ? The list goes on and on - in the end whole branches of the economy are being sacrificed for the common good, and as a result of government decisions. The question of revitalization and compensation is going to occupy us for much longer than the pandemic itself.
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With the kind of authoritarian regime China has, I'm amazed that Peking does not have the power to enforce Chinese national laws on health and safety, animal rights etc. They had no problem hammering Hong Kong when they decided enough was enough. May be there will be changes now. If not, it will further adversely affect China's reputation in the world.

I agree with your second para. There are so many people taking different positions on lockdowns in the UK, it's a mess. Farage, some Tories and some Labour MP's are against lockdown and for shielding of the aged to allow working age people to get on with their lives. Labour has been all over the place with lockdowns but is currently saying it wanted a quick national circuit break but will support Johnson's approach of a national lockdown which, according to Michael Gove yesterday, is open ended and could last beyond Christmas. Questions are beginning to be asked as to the veracity of the scientific evidence on which Boris Johnson is basing his policy. Much could be learned from other countries, but as far as I can see, not in Europe which is struggling in the same way as the UK
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
Much could be learned from other countries, but as far as I can see, not in Europe which is struggling in the same way as the UK
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The problem that mainland Europe has is it's multiple borders - probably the reason as to why the US has such a hugh prevelance of infection. Countries such as Australia and NZ closed their borders to prevent incoming cases, with great success - surely it would be a logical step for an island nation such as ours to follow suit?
 
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Interesting comment from Steve Baker, right wing free marketer and lockdown sceptic par excellence.

He was invited to Downing Street to hear the evidence direct from those advising the government. He took 3 lockdown sceptical scientists with him. Afterwards he said he would love to be able to automatically vote against the lockdown with no thought, but he and his team were unable to refute what they were told by the government advisors, so he will be backing it.

For this bloke to change his mind, and admit to it in public, is quite something.

Source: The Times.

Given that we seem to be a bit behind and a bit worse than the rest of Europe in dealing with this, what’s the money on us following Spain and Italy with anti lockdown riots and looting soon? Huge queues for shops today - especially the ones that will still be open on Thursday. Do people never learn?
 
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Steelmonkey said:
The problem that mainland Europe has is it's multiple borders - probably the reason as to why the US has such a hugh prevelance of infection. Countries such as Australia and NZ closed their borders to prevent incoming cases, with great success - surely it would be a logical step for an island nation such as ours to follow suit?
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It's a good question, Steel. As I understand it, there will be restrictions in travelling abroad from Nov 5 but borders stay open. As you say, closing borders has worked marvellously for NZ. Watch this space
 
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Steelmonkey said:
The problem that mainland Europe has is it's multiple borders - probably the reason as to why the US has such a hugh prevelance of infection. Countries such as Australia and NZ closed their borders to prevent incoming cases, with great success - surely it would be a logical step for an island nation such as ours to follow suit?
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As you say it is much easier for an island to close its borders than for eg. Germany with its 9 land borders. Britain has failed to use this advantage - however, such a step works better much earlier, at the beginning of such a pandemic. New Zealand acted quickly - closing borders now would be a little bit like building a fence around a field and then realizing that most of the rabbits and voles are already inside. The USA was always able to control its borders but it has been far more a case of infections spreading from the USA to Mexico and Canada than the other way around.
 
rangercol said:
We should have closed our borders in the beginning.
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I don't think many would now disagree with that Col. The further extention to that is the willingness to seal off areas within the country itself (internal borders). It's clear now that many European countries would have profited by doing this early enough. In many Asian countries they did this but softened the blow by paying an unconditional basic income to those temporarily imprisoned within such areas.
 
colognehornet said:
The USA was always able to control its borders but it has been far more a case of infections spreading from the USA to Mexico and Canada than the other way around.
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Think you may have misunderstood my original post - I was drawing a similarity between the individual states in the US and the individual countries within mainland Europe, and their ability to control the internal borders in the US.

An island nation such as ourselves or Ireland should be closing shop or forcibly requiring isolation on entry - I doubt it will happen though.
 
rangercol said:
We should have closed our borders in the beginning.
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I said at the beginning when the experts were bitching about that race meeting for causing all the Covid cases... <doh> that we should have shut our borders.
People need to remember that flights were coming in everyday from China/US/Europe and those arriving didn't all obey the quarantine rules. We must also not forget the amount of EU lorry drivers that were going from country to country with goods. This is how these things spread around.
You will only defeat this by all countries working together... which won't happen because for whatever we say some nutcase will be in the US saying Covid doesn't exist.
 
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Carl Heneghan believes the data upon which the government has decided to lock down is inaccurate.
 
ELLERS said:
That would also mean closing schools and most businesses. that won't happen.
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Andy Burnham is calling for closure of schools in Manchester, and Diane Brainbox Abbott is supporting him. National Union of Teachers may call for state school teachers to stay at home anyway.

Meanwhile, private schools continue and the attainment gap widens
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
Andy Burnham is calling for closure of schools in Manchester, and Diane Brainbox Abbott is supporting him. National Union of Teachers may call for state school teachers to stay at home anyway.

Meanwhile, private schools continue and the attainment gap widens
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Mmm Labour has already said schools should stay open...
 
West WindsR said:
Good for them. Personally I disagree.
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My point being that nobody from any party really has the answers. We look to the experts who have all this scientific data but can all manage at times to disagree?
Regarding schools... I just keep thinking of those children who will miss out. Saying that in a lot of schools around the country groups/classes/years are getting sent home if one person gets it?
Some tough calls ahead for the government.
 
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