Off Topic Coronavirus

[sb_73]

If we don't know much about this still then I would do the following:
1) Test a moderate size town. Say 50-80 thousand people. Test them all because you might as well get prevalence stats.
2) Test them again 4 weeks later and see if the antibodies are still present in those affected and get stats on new cases of antibodies been present.
3) Ask for volunteers from those that showed antibodies in both test but had mild to no symptoms to volunteer to be exposed to the virus. Pay them handsomely for it.
4) Analyse the crap out of the results.

Good plan. This is the type of thing we need.

 

[qprbeth]

If we don't know much about this still then I would do the following:
1) Test a moderate size town. Say 50-80 thousand people. Test them all because you might as well get prevalence stats.
2) Test them again 4 weeks later and see if the antibodies are still present in those affected and get stats on new cases of antibodies been present.
3) Ask for volunteers from those that showed antibodies in both test but had mild to no symptoms to volunteer to be exposed to the virus. Pay them handsomely for it.
4) Analyse the crap out of the results.

Unfortunately Koopee we cannot do point 3, as it is unethical.

We have no "cure" for CoVid yet (what ever the orange president says), therefore it is unethical to deliberately expose participants to a virus that can kill them, and we cannot stop it.
That is why the people undergoing the vaccine trial are not going to be infected, they are just being left in the community to catch it "naturally". That is why the trial may take a long time to get results.

 

[sb_73]

Unfortunately Koopee we cannot do point 3, as it is unethical.

We have no "cure" for CoVid yet (what ever the orange president says), therefore it is unethical to deliberately expose participants to a virus that can kill them, and we cannot stop it.
That is why the people undergoing the vaccine trial are not going to be infected, they are just being left in the community to catch it "naturally". That is why the trial may take a long time to get results.

I am a bit worried about the Oxford vaccine. They are very gung ho about it being effective and safe, but the reason it usually takes years to get vaccines rolled out is the safety testing - billions of people could end up being vaccinated, we have to be 100% certain that any unwanted side effects (there will be some) are manageable, small scale and worth the risk. I don’t see how this can be done by September. Many of the most vulnerable to COVID will be on multiple medicines already - will all the drug interactions be known? What about pregnant women and unborn children etc etc.......There is a reason these things take time.

 

[sb_73]

Cummings says he behaved reasonably and legally.

What is it with these self regarding, entitled, egotistical, arrogant ****s? Is it beyond them to admit making a mistake and saying sorry? Crony politics is here to stay, a bunch of incompetent over privileged bastards looking after themselves. Although they will, of course, knife each other if it gives them a leg up the greasy pole.

60,000 excess deaths minimum because of these people.

There has to be a reckoning.

 

[Sooperhoop]

Quite amusing reading through today's posts and seeing the usual suspects foaming at the mouth about Cummings. I personally think he's a total c*nt, however, if my daughter had rang me saying she was ill and couldn't look after her kids they would then come and stay with me, no question. Anyone who wouldn't do that in the same circumstances needs to take a serious look at themselves.

I'm sure the rabid press hounds will nail their prey and then move on to claim their next victim as they do. As I've said before they're all c*nts and the press are just as bad...

 

[qprbeth]

I am a bit worried about the Oxford vaccine. They are very gung ho about it being effective and safe, but the reason it usually takes years to get vaccines rolled out is the safety testing - billions of people could end up being vaccinated, we have to be 100% certain that any unwanted side effects (there will be some) are manageable, small scale and worth the risk. I don’t see how this can be done by September. Many of the most vulnerable to COVID will be on multiple medicines already - will all the drug interactions be known? What about pregnant women and unborn children etc etc.......There is a reason these things take time.

I hope your worries are unfounded Stan because I have signed up as a volunteer for the trial (on the long list...not yet selected).
The control arm is a licensed vaccine (MenACWY) I am believing that the CoVid vaccine is built on the same framework and so will be partially safety checked, but you are right, and you can never be sure.
You ask "will all the drug interactions be known", obviously not, and they never will have been, as new drugs and new drug combinations are being produced all the time.

However I am really not sure who is saying September for mass vaccinations, as the trial part I may/maynot be on will not finish until next Spring at the earliest. As said to KooPee since the people in the trial are simply being released into the community to get "infected", it is going to take a long time for the results to come through, especially if the virus is mostly contained and there is no 2nd wave.

 

[sb_73]

Quite amusing reading through today's posts and seeing the usual suspects foaming at the mouth about Cummings. I personally think he's a total c*nt, however, if my daughter had rang me saying she was ill and couldn't look after her kids they would then come and stay with me, no question. Anyone who wouldn't do that in the same circumstances needs to take a serious look at themselves.

I'm sure the rabid press hounds will nail their prey and then move on to claim their next victim as they do. As I've said before they're all c*nts and the press are just as bad...

Maybe the expectations of someone who is setting the rules for the nation and then ignoring them should be different than for a retired cabbie, Soops.

 

[Stroller]

You can get flu year after year can’t you? It’s the same thing, some short term immunity would be expected but not long lasting, like you get with measles. They don’t know whether there is any immunity, immunity for some for a few months, or immunity for all who have had it.

How do you think an antibody test should be deployed?

Give everyone an antibody test. I suspect that this would show that a far larger number have had the virus than is currently thought. Then, until such time as someone is shown to have been re-infected, I think we should assume that if you test positive for antibodies, you are safe to live your life normally. Something's got to break this spell of terror.

 

[qprbeth]

Quite amusing reading through today's posts and seeing the usual suspects foaming at the mouth about Cummings. I personally think he's a total c*nt, however, if my daughter had rang me saying she was ill and couldn't look after her kids they would then come and stay with me, no question. Anyone who wouldn't do that in the same circumstances needs to take a serious look at themselves.

I'm sure the rabid press hounds will nail their prey and then move on to claim their next victim as they do. As I've said before they're all c*nts and the press are just as bad...

Wrong Sooper. If my daughter said that to me (I am over 65)...I would immediately drive over to her house (taking everything I need for a prolonged stay) and then take up residence with them. I would not bring her and her virus into my house to infect my hubbie who is nearly 70

It is my choice to take the risk. And I believe that I am healthy when travelling
So she would not be driving with CoVid, taking the risk of breaking down or coughing over a petrol pump attendant.
We would not take the risk of infecting my vunerable husband

So sorry Sooper, you are wrong on that one

 

[Sooperhoop]

Maybe the expectations of someone who is setting the rules for the nation and them ignoring them should be different than for a retired cabbie, Soops.

And the press will get their man, as they always do. I just look at it from that of a parent/grandparent who will do what is necessary for his family, would you?...

 

[qprbeth]

Give everyone an antibody test. I suspect that this would show that a far larger number have had the virus than is currently thought. Then, until such time as someone is shown to have been re-infected, I think we should assume that if you test positive for antibodies, you are safe to live your life normally. Something's got to break this spell of terror.

Could well be right Stroller, I hope you are

See the BBC report by Fergus Walsh
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52762939

He tested three tests for BBC and he was antibody positive in all 3 (so unlikely to be false) and he has no recollection of having CoVid symptoms at all

 

[sb_73]

I hope your worries are unfounded Stan because I have signed up as a volunteer for the trial (on the long list...not yet selected).
The control arm is a licensed vaccine (MenACWY) I am believing that the CoVid vaccine is built on the same framework and so will be partially safety checked, but you are right, and you can never be sure.
You ask "will all the drug interactions be known", obviously not, and they never will have been, as new drugs and new drug combinations are being produced all the time.

However I am really not sure who is saying September for mass vaccinations, as the trial part I may/maynot be on will not finish until next Spring at the earliest. As said to KooPee since the people in the trial are simply being released into the community to get "infected", it is going to take a long time for the results to come through, especially if the virus is mostly contained and there is no 2nd wave.

Sarah Gilbert said it could be ready by September and AZ say they can make 10 million doses then.

Loathe as I am to use this source, what do you think of this?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...d-professor-defences-coronavirus-vaccine.html

 

[sb_73]

And the press will get their man, as they always do. I just look at it from that of a parent/grandparent who will do what is necessary for his family, would you?...

See Beth’s response. There are many more responsible ways of getting your kids looked after than the one chosen by Cummings. And my point was that Cummings and his ilk should be judged on what they tell the rest of us to do, which is different to judging the actions of people without his influence and power over our daily lives.

 

[KooPeeArr]

Unfortunately Koopee we cannot do point 3, as it is unethical.

We have no "cure" for CoVid yet (what ever the orange president says), therefore it is unethical to deliberately expose participants to a virus that can kill them, and we cannot stop it.
That is why the people undergoing the vaccine trial are not going to be infected, they are just being left in the community to catch it "naturally". That is why the trial may take a long time to get results.

I get your point although it raises questions about whether the antibody test is worth anything at all (possibly in checking up on the vaccine testers).

Ethically though, we are in a country where the entire population was going to be exposed to the virus to develop herd immunity (at a point where the same or less was known about it) so exposing those who seem to have a natural resistance (ie don't get bad symptoms) and have antibodies seems a much smaller risk.

Surely any front line NHS staff with poor equipment are being exposed in breach of those ethics and it then comes down to necessity to a larger degree?

Do normal tests (previous vaccines etc) have no risk of death?

I'm not trying to be argumentative (this would be a bad subject to try to take you on with) but it seems like a self imposed deadlock in this particular case.

 

[qprbeth]

And the press will get their man, as they always do. I just look at it from that of a parent/grandparent who will do what is necessary for his family, would you?...

I am a sensible grand parent I told you what I would do.

Please also read into the back story of what Cummings has said. He said his sister not his parents were going to look after his child. I do not know if she has a partner or not, but there were at least 3 healthy people in Durham who could have collected his child and looked after him for Cummings, whilst he was in bed for 10 days, with his wife so worried that she watched his chest for movement and they bought a blood oxygen meter to follow his oxygen levels.

No idea if his wife has family closer than Durham who could have done the same.
It just makes me livid

 

[sb_73]

Give everyone an antibody test. I suspect that this would show that a far larger number have had the virus than is currently thought. Then, until such time as someone is shown to have been re-infected, I think we should assume that if you test positive for antibodies, you are safe to live your life normally. Something's got to break this spell of terror.

67 million tests. We’ll be waiting a bit then. There are many people who won’t be able/shouldn’t be trusted to effectively test themselves, so we’ll need clinicians to get involved.

Even though public opinion is allegedly strongly in favour of restrictions, as things stand the lockdown is in slow collapse anyway, you could open your pub for your mates with no interference anyway. If we don’t see a surge in infections/hospitalisation in the next 3-4 weeks we might not need to bother with tests.

Your desire to live your life normally is of course understandable. But you can’t unless everybody else, or at least the vast majority, wants to as well. If the people who staff your favourite boozer are worried about reopening, don’t they get a choice as well? John Donne got it.

 

[bobmid]

I am a sensible grand parent I told you what I would do.

Please also read into the back story of what Cummings has said. He said his sister not his parents were going to look after his child. I do not know if she has a partner or not, but there were at least 3 healthy people in Durham who could have collected his child and looked after him for Cummings, whilst he was in bed for 10 days, with his wife so worried that she watched his chest for movement and they bought a blood oxygen meter to follow his oxygen levels.

No idea if his wife has family closer than Durham who could have done the same.
It just makes me livid

And rightly so!

 

[qprbeth]

Sarah Gilbert said it could be ready by September and AZ say they can make 10 million doses then.

Loathe as I am to use this source, what do you think of this?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...d-professor-defences-coronavirus-vaccine.html

There is a bit of creative writing in there I would think. Alok Sharma said he hoped we could roll out mass vacccinations by september. Yes, they can produce 30 million vaccine shots in the autumn ( I am sure they could do it quicker than that if it was ready to go today)....all that is just raising false hopes. As said the bit I signed up for hasn't started and will take a year to work through....So a vaccine by Sept 2021 is more reasonable IF IT WORKS


So, DOES IT WORK: On the test front, yes that is more worrying. It would be optimal if the vaccination reduced the amount of virus shedding in the monkeys nose but there is a line in there that is critically important "The trial on monkeys also found that, unlike non-vaccinated primates, those that were vaccinated did not sustain any lung damage. " It is the lung damage that kills people either directly or through the cytokine storm.

You are right science takes a long time ...it cannot be rushed

 

[Frome-Ranger]

The way these cabinet ministers are closing ranks around Cummings on Twitter is stomach churning.

 

[pompeymeowth]

Whateverrrrr, I'll do what I want!