Off Topic Coronavirus

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Having just seen the last days worth of "we are just following scientific guidelines", "we are just doing what the science tells us too" mostly related to the release of the old from hospitals back into care homes during March and April, without testing. I can see who the new scapegoats are going to be.

It is either the government's scientific advisers are not listening to the scientists on the ground...or perhaps the scientific advisers are being over run by other advisers. I assume you are all aware, that some scientists are so shocked about what is going on that there is an alternative body set up to try and monitor the government and their advisers


https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-david-king-sage-science-advice-government-policy-2841632
 
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QPR999 said:
I would have thought that whatever government was in place, they would have all had to follow the advice of the scientist who would more or less be the same people.
Click to expand...

I want my government to take scientific, economic, social and whatever advice. It’s up to it to then put all that in the mix and determine strategy. They’re elected to get it largely right, but it makes it hugely important to get the communication right too - that’s not necessarily about telling 100% truths but about delivering a message that will give the masses confidence, security and influence behaviour.

About 4/10, I reckon.
 
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QPR999 said:
I would have thought that whatever government was in place, they would have all had to follow the advice of the scientist who would more or less be the same people.
Click to expand...

Who was it that was listening to the scientists then as the man who is meant to be in charge wasn’t even attending the meetings?
 
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qprbeth said:
Having just seen the last days worth of "we are just following scientific guidelines", "we are just doing what the science tells us too" mostly related to the release of the old from hospitals back into care homes during March and April, without testing. I can see who the new scapegoats are going to be.

It is either the government's scientific advisers are not listening to the scientists on the ground...or perhaps the scientific advisers are being over run by other advisers. I assume you are all aware, that some scientists are so shocked about what is going on that there is an alternative body set up to try and monitor the government and their advisers


https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-david-king-sage-science-advice-government-policy-2841632
Click to expand...
Yeah, I read about that, and especially that nearly everyone on SAGE is in some way publicly funded, either because they work for the government or for universities.

I think there is an element of ego and pride at play - all these experts, especially the ones you see regularly on telly, are now part of the strategy (whatever that is, increasingly opaque to me) and have an incentive to defend it at every turn. They might as well be members of the government as opposed to advisors to it, they have been colonised by the politicians and are now colluding with them in pig headedly claiming success for something which is an increasingly obvious failure in all measures except availability of ICU beds.
 
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Meanwhile, if you are ill with anything other than coronavirus, good luck with getting treated. Three usually competing independent think tanks - the Kings Fund, the Nuffield Trust and the Health Foundation - all agree that it will be months before services are approaching normal as the need for reorganising services to keep them free from the virus, constant deep cleaning and use of PPE where none was needed before are taken into account.

Last month non COVID A&E attendances were less than 50% of normal. Is it the collapse in demand for, and inability to treat, ‘usual’ health needs or government policy that has ‘protected’ the NHS? Remind me what we have ‘protected’ it for?
 
qprbeth said:
Having just seen the last days worth of "we are just following scientific guidelines", "we are just doing what the science tells us too" mostly related to the release of the old from hospitals back into care homes during March and April, without testing. I can see who the new scapegoats are going to be.

It is either the government's scientific advisers are not listening to the scientists on the ground...or perhaps the scientific advisers are being over run by other advisers. I assume you are all aware, that some scientists are so shocked about what is going on that there is an alternative body set up to try and monitor the government and their advisers


https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-david-king-sage-science-advice-government-policy-2841632
Click to expand...

It seems to me that, contrary to its claims, the government has not been led by the scientific advice, but has been influencing it. Whitty, Vallance and the hapless Harries, whilst well-intentioned, have become politicised by this whole process and are now in cahoots with the government rather than merely advising it.

Edit: What Stan said.
 
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Independent SAGE report here:
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Won’t be comfortable reading for official SAGE members. Point 3 of the executive summary on misrepresentation of statistics is especially damaging. These guys do have the benefit of hindsight and at least 2 of this group are, to my personal knowledge, deeply anti government. Still good to get a broader perspective.
 
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The government carried out or posted out 126,064 tests on Wednesday, the figures also show.

This is the third time it has met its 100,000 a day target, according to its criteria.


There has been another big post out of home kits, including the 40,000 to care homes I think.
 
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