Off Topic Coronavirus

[bobmid]

I said on another post that Brexit preparations saved us in many areas.

In what way?. Genuine question Ellers.

 

[ELLERS]

Possible interesting article/thread on PPE?

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1249238956400574464.html

I also heard someone talking about different hospital trusts and different suppliers charging various prices. Stockpiling and distribution has also caused problems. It’s a massive task and some will miss out. This is the upsetting thing. We must also Remember the NHS is using more PPE and many other organisations/general public are now using it.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I said on another post that Brexit preparations saved us in many areas.

When you have to stockpile body bags it’s arguably a sign that whatever you’re about to do voluntarily isn’t a great idea.

 

[ELLERS]

Thread / Article from LBC Presenter Maajid Nawaz ...

[HASHTAG]#Covid19[/HASHTAG] has exposed the grave political miscalculations behind decades of western geo-strategic relations with China. We have sleepwalked into a supply-side over-dependency, believing China would embrace democratic norms. We’ve been played. China is now on a war footing.

Here’s how:

1) For clothing (factory-fashion), PPE, IT parts & more, too many manufactured goods rely on a ‘Made in China’ supply-chain. And yet while owning the supply-side of our economies

2) China’s been cloning western software via her lackadaisical respect for copyright. So as we rely on China for hardware, China avoided software dependency on us by creating TikTok to replace snapchat, Weibo for Twitter, WeChat & RenRen for Facebook and so on. They have a Chinese version for everything.

3) OK, so manufactured goods & hardware are ‘Made in China’. Software is ‘Cloned in China’. What of natural resources?

Through China’s ‘Belt & Road’ initiative she has lent money to developing nations while securing key infrastructure such as mines & ports as collateral for loans. Look to Pakistan, African & South East Asian nations to see China’s rapid expansion of ownership of mines & ports. Look to the UK for her attempts to secure our telecoms industry via the Huawei deal, her offer to buy British Steel & her offer to develop our nuclear power stations.

4) Over decades we naively outsourced (or lost) manufacturing, software & natural resources to China. Yet as [HASHTAG]#Covid19[/HASHTAG] highlights, during a crisis (or a war) our society is at a standstill & we are unable to manufacture PPE etc.. Meanwhile, China has achieved *self-sufficiency*.

5) Let’s move to China’s domestic politics: while doing the above economically, China’s communist one-party state has centralised political power, gained unprecedented command over her own population via spy-tech, placed up to 2m Uigurs in gulags & made President Xi, president for life.

6) Now, you tell me from basic knowledge about British colonial history, the East India company & the British Raj: which type of state seeks to centralise domestic power under one strong leader, own global supply chains, monopolise industry, while expanding abroad to secure natural resources?

7) there is little room for doubt that China is at a pre-colonial stage. She is *aggressively* pursuing self-sufficiency from internationalism. The question arises: WHY?

My unavoidable conclusion is: China is preparing for war. If/when this happens (not yet), is distinct from her preparing for it.

it pains me to say that the type of war China is preparing for is total, not partial war. The kind of war that rebalances the world order, tipping it in her favour by replacing the US as the dominant power.

9) Also (crucially, unlike us) China is not preparing for past wars. China is preparing for the next type of war. China knows that she cannot beat the US militarily. But that type of ground war is almost over. By securing supply chains, having an iron grip on her own population China can focus on building her cyber & biological war capabilities while remaining relatively safeguarded against the same herself, because she is not dependent on the world for supply chains or tech.

11) considering this, from steel, to nuclear to telecoms, our policy towards China hitherto can be best described as one of miserably failed economic appeasement.

So, what’s the solution? Take their bait & prepare for war too?

12) No. We must first understand what happened & why we are in this darkly comedic position where we willingly handed China the tools by which to beat us. If this (terrible, but not devastating) [HASHTAG]#Covid19[/HASHTAG] outbreak were harsher (eg: Black Death) lacking PPE, we’d all be dead by now

13) we must urgently pivot our strategic relationship with China. I repeat, this does NOT mean go to war. It means: have a strategy!

i) assume China is in a Cold War with us already (the above thread shows she indisputably is) & respond with this in mind (ie: end the naivety)

ii) end this naive global supply-chain total dependency on any one nation

iii) trade with China, yes, but always ringfence critical infrastructure: nuclear, telecoms & natural resources eg: steel

iv) the post-WWII international community via the UN (as recent politicisation of WHO shows) is no longer serving its purpose. We must reorder our strategic & military alliances around the Pacific (NATO style) & build an international consensus against the communist Chinese state

v) just like nuclear non proliferation, there must be global consequences for cyber & bio hazard. Post Covid, we must build a new global consensus on which punitive measures are suited to states that violate our cyber or bio safety

14) as I tried to show, due to our ‘othering’ of China, our hubris & our naivety, we have been outmanoeuvred by a people & culture who brought us Sun Tsu’s the Art of War. This outbreak has magnified these failures & we would be deserving of loss if we did not learn lessons now.

15) Finally, those asking whether China “released” [HASHTAG]#Covid19[/HASHTAG] deliberately. No, I don’t think she did. Covid-19 provided us with the perfect (albeit tragic) dry-run for a future aspect of warfare &lessons in how to be better prepared. It doesn’t suit China for us to learn these lessons

Spot on Maajid However he has now ruined one of my conspiracy posts!

 

[sb_73]

So now it seems that the BBC is chief cheerleader for the ‘make everyone wear a face mask’ tendency, presumably so that, when it gets its way, it can then attack the government because there aren’t enough face masks.

The mayor of London, who is so completely irrelevant that I have genuinely forgotten his name, has fallen for it. The message should be - social distance, stay at home if you are ill or have been exposed to someone who is ill. But I fully expect that the medical experts will be forced for political reasons to ‘advise’ that we go down this route, probably in the next week. This will raise tensions because of shortage, reduce the little bit of social cohesion we have seen growing, because seeing someone’s face (even from two metres) is important in establishing a bond, and place more stress on supply to those who actually should wear a mask for work.

Next expect the government to halt 5G expansion because some people are idiots. Probably.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Grant Shapps is the one sacrificed this morning on ITV to lie through his teeth. There’s a bookshelf in the background so you know he’s going intelligent.

 

[ELLERS]

When you have to stockpile body bags it’s arguably a sign that whatever you’re about to do voluntarily isn’t a great idea.

You do make me laugh Watford. You need to stop reading the Guardian and it’s predictions because they keep getting things wrong.
Many organisation especially in food/medicines have said the Brexit stockpiling has helped them through this crisis. So actually they have saved lives. Sadly the body bags will also be crucial. Although I have read that we do have a shortage of those as well.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

You do make me laugh Watford. You need to stop reading the Guardian and it’s predictions because they keep getting things wrong.
Many organisation especially in food/medicines have said the Brexit stockpiling has helped them through this crisis. So actually they have saved lives. Sadly the body bags will also be crucial. Although I have read that we do have a shortage of those as well.

Yes it’s fortunate that we stockpiled ahead of a voluntary economic shock just before an involuntary economic shock. Brilliant.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

In what way?. Genuine question Ellers.

Apart from the aforementioned body bags, I’d like to know too.

 

[bobmid]

So now it seems that the BBC is chief cheerleader for the ‘make everyone wear a face mask’ tendency, presumably so that, when it gets its way, it can then attack the government because there aren’t enough face masks.

The mayor of London, who is so completely irrelevant that I have genuinely forgotten his name, has fallen for it. The message should be - social distance, stay at home if you are ill or have been exposed to someone who is ill. But I fully expect that the medical experts will be forced for political reasons to ‘advise’ that we go down this route, probably in the next week. This will raise tensions because of shortage, reduce the little bit of social cohesion we have seen growing, because seeing someone’s face (even from two metres) is important in establishing a bond, and place more stress on supply to those who actually should wear a mask for work.

Next expect the government to halt 5G expansion because some people are idiots. Probably.

There is no scientific evidence to the benefits of the public wearing face masks, soon moved to there is a little bit of evidence that these could be beneficial to the public. Guarantee that within the next 3 weeks this will change again. Even the scientists are becoming political animals!

 

[bobmid]

Had to have a sad, yes sad little chuckle at the governments death graph yesterday. **** we have been rumbled after a couple of months! Someone write 'hospitalised deaths only'.

 

[bobmid]

Apart from the aforementioned body bags, I’d like to know too.

It actually is a genuine question on my part. I'm intrigued.

 

[sb_73]

Thread / Article from LBC Presenter Maajid Nawaz ...

[HASHTAG]#Covid19[/HASHTAG] has exposed the grave political miscalculations behind decades of western geo-strategic relations with China. We have sleepwalked into a supply-side over-dependency, believing China would embrace democratic norms. We’ve been played. China is now on a war footing.

Here’s how:

1) For clothing (factory-fashion), PPE, IT parts & more, too many manufactured goods rely on a ‘Made in China’ supply-chain. And yet while owning the supply-side of our economies

2) China’s been cloning western software via her lackadaisical respect for copyright. So as we rely on China for hardware, China avoided software dependency on us by creating TikTok to replace snapchat, Weibo for Twitter, WeChat & RenRen for Facebook and so on. They have a Chinese version for everything.

3) OK, so manufactured goods & hardware are ‘Made in China’. Software is ‘Cloned in China’. What of natural resources?

Through China’s ‘Belt & Road’ initiative she has lent money to developing nations while securing key infrastructure such as mines & ports as collateral for loans. Look to Pakistan, African & South East Asian nations to see China’s rapid expansion of ownership of mines & ports. Look to the UK for her attempts to secure our telecoms industry via the Huawei deal, her offer to buy British Steel & her offer to develop our nuclear power stations.

4) Over decades we naively outsourced (or lost) manufacturing, software & natural resources to China. Yet as [HASHTAG]#Covid19[/HASHTAG] highlights, during a crisis (or a war) our society is at a standstill & we are unable to manufacture PPE etc.. Meanwhile, China has achieved *self-sufficiency*.

5) Let’s move to China’s domestic politics: while doing the above economically, China’s communist one-party state has centralised political power, gained unprecedented command over her own population via spy-tech, placed up to 2m Uigurs in gulags & made President Xi, president for life.

6) Now, you tell me from basic knowledge about British colonial history, the East India company & the British Raj: which type of state seeks to centralise domestic power under one strong leader, own global supply chains, monopolise industry, while expanding abroad to secure natural resources?

7) there is little room for doubt that China is at a pre-colonial stage. She is *aggressively* pursuing self-sufficiency from internationalism. The question arises: WHY?

My unavoidable conclusion is: China is preparing for war. If/when this happens (not yet), is distinct from her preparing for it.

it pains me to say that the type of war China is preparing for is total, not partial war. The kind of war that rebalances the world order, tipping it in her favour by replacing the US as the dominant power.

9) Also (crucially, unlike us) China is not preparing for past wars. China is preparing for the next type of war. China knows that she cannot beat the US militarily. But that type of ground war is almost over. By securing supply chains, having an iron grip on her own population China can focus on building her cyber & biological war capabilities while remaining relatively safeguarded against the same herself, because she is not dependent on the world for supply chains or tech.

11) considering this, from steel, to nuclear to telecoms, our policy towards China hitherto can be best described as one of miserably failed economic appeasement.

So, what’s the solution? Take their bait & prepare for war too?

12) No. We must first understand what happened & why we are in this darkly comedic position where we willingly handed China the tools by which to beat us. If this (terrible, but not devastating) [HASHTAG]#Covid19[/HASHTAG] outbreak were harsher (eg: Black Death) lacking PPE, we’d all be dead by now

13) we must urgently pivot our strategic relationship with China. I repeat, this does NOT mean go to war. It means: have a strategy!

i) assume China is in a Cold War with us already (the above thread shows she indisputably is) & respond with this in mind (ie: end the naivety)

ii) end this naive global supply-chain total dependency on any one nation

iii) trade with China, yes, but always ringfence critical infrastructure: nuclear, telecoms & natural resources eg: steel

iv) the post-WWII international community via the UN (as recent politicisation of WHO shows) is no longer serving its purpose. We must reorder our strategic & military alliances around the Pacific (NATO style) & build an international consensus against the communist Chinese state

v) just like nuclear non proliferation, there must be global consequences for cyber & bio hazard. Post Covid, we must build a new global consensus on which punitive measures are suited to states that violate our cyber or bio safety

14) as I tried to show, due to our ‘othering’ of China, our hubris & our naivety, we have been outmanoeuvred by a people & culture who brought us Sun Tsu’s the Art of War. This outbreak has magnified these failures & we would be deserving of loss if we did not learn lessons now.

15) Finally, those asking whether China “released” [HASHTAG]#Covid19[/HASHTAG] deliberately. No, I don’t think she did. Covid-19 provided us with the perfect (albeit tragic) dry-run for a future aspect of warfare &lessons in how to be better prepared. It doesn’t suit China for us to learn these lessons

Isn’t this the bloke who was played by Tommy Robinson?

Lot in there. Not sure all of it is properly thought through. Using the word ‘war’ is emotive and gets our attention. China, with its new and sexy brand of ‘totalitarian capitalism’ has already won the competition, and is in the process of securing its gains. It’s opposition is weak, divided and utterly incapable of reaching collective decisions and taking effective joint action (see climate change and the current pandemic).

What Nawaz doesn’t factor in (and you can tell by his use of the words ‘China’ and ‘we/us’) is that we are talking about the Chinese Communist Party leadership and a few Chinese business oligarchs and their counterparts around the world, not the vast majority, the rest of us. One day the Chinese people will have had enough of living in fear and being lied to. And some of the rest of us won’t be so enamoured of our dear leaders either. And then we might get mad as hell.

Probably one for the politics thread, apologies.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

It actually is a genuine question on my part. I'm intrigued.

It makes sense that we’d have stockpiles of certain things that were going to be difficult to get hold of. Wouldn’t have made for a great bus slogan admittedly.

Quite what we do if we still go along with the expected timelines and the stockpiles have been used up by the last few weeks and the economy is in double-digit decline I’m not sure.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Had to have a sad, yes sad little chuckle at the governments death graph yesterday. **** we have been rumbled after a couple of months! Someone write 'hospitalised deaths only'.

I’d like to know more about the spike in non-Corona deaths. It’s great that there’s apparently plenty of capacity still in the health service but it seems odd given how constrained we’ve been historically and sort of contradicts a huge spike in other deaths.

 

[ELLERS]

Yes it’s fortunate that we stockpiled ahead of a voluntary economic shock just before an involuntary economic shock. Brilliant.

But if we hadn’t you would be moaning there is no food or medicines? And we know who you would blame.
You can’t have it both ways Watford. That stockpiling has saved us. This information has come from many business organisations. Accept it as a good thing and try not to always find a negative.

 

[bobmid]

But if we hadn’t you would be moaning there is no food or medicines? And we know who you would blame.
You can’t have it both ways Watford. That stockpiling has saved us. This information has come from many business organisations. Accept it as a good thing and try not to always find a negative.

I suppose there will be positives and negatives regarding Brexit and our preparation with coronavirus.

 

[ELLERS]

Grant Shapps is the one sacrificed this morning on ITV to lie through his teeth. There’s a bookshelf in the background so you know he’s going intelligent.

The thing is that Grant is a very clever guy. Highly regarded in the Party. He should do more speaking regarding the briefings as Raab comes across cold.

 

[bobmid]

The thing is that Grant is a very clever guy. Highly regarded in the Party. He should do more speaking regarding the briefings as Raab comes across cold.

I actually find myself missing Boris on the daily briefings.

 

[ELLERS]

However Watford you are correct regarding some of the people they use at the briefings. Patel, the business Sec, Raab, Gove have all been a bit crap. Chancellor is pretty good (one for the politics thread). I think they are finding it hard after losing Boris. He is the most popular and charismatic MP/PM. What they should have done is dragged May or Cameron back who both have the experience. Or maybe they should have got some bod who can actually answer a question? How about Piers?