Off Topic Coronavirus

[BobbyD]

Our understanding of the English language clearly differs.

Under your definitions and use of the word that’s a very ‘woke’ post Ellers.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Sir John Bell, leading the team which is pursuing the antibody test says it will be at least a month before an antibody test will be available for the public.

Chris Whitty, CMO (welcome back Chris!), says that doesn’t matter because not enough people have been infected yet to bother with testing the public. Now I usually like Chris, but two questions:
- in the absence of testing and data on asymptomatic cases, and the numbers of non recorded sympomatic cases just how the **** do you know how many people have been infected?
- have you considered that real people who suspect they have had the virus might want the test as soon as possible because they want to reassure theme selves that they won’t pass it on to vulnerable friends and relatives and that they want to get back to work?

FFS

Meanwhile in the Times Tom Tugenhat or whatever his name is has launched a massive, broadside attack on China, from giving us the disease to profiteering by selling us faulty ****. Good man.

Agree about Tugendhat. I'm deeply sceptical about China now, and have gone from sitting on the fence on 5G, to being against Huawei getting the UK contract

 

[bobmid]

Fair enough, Bob. And of course, I agree with your later post that where health is concerned, we're all human and equally important. Where leadership is concerned, it's probably true that the care Boris is getting is the very best the NHS can offer because as PM, his health and recovery could have an important effect on the health and welfare of the population he leads

Ah there lies my disagreement. His care should be no better or worse than what anyone else is entitled to regardless of their position in society. You are correct that he does have an important effect on the health and welfare of society. As things stand, the medics losing their lives probably have more effect, the same people who's pay cap was cheered and applauded. These are the real heroes.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Just an observation...

We happily took up their offer of helping re-patriate some stranded Brits even if we declined their offer to help with medical procurement.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Ah there lies my disagreement. His care should be no better or worse than what anyone else is entitled to regardless of their position in society. You are correct that he does have an important effect on the health and welfare of society. As things stand, the medics losing their lives probably have more effect, the same people who's pay cap was cheered and applauded. These are the real heroes.

I think a leader, because so much turns on his or her being able to function properly for the nation's welfare, does come before the rest of us. As I said in an earlier post, not as an individual but as PM. And I would say the same if Corbyn or Sir Keir were PM. First priority, for the benefit of all, is to get the person at the helm back on his feet

 

[qprbeth]

Sir John Bell, leading the team which is pursuing the antibody test says it will be at least a month before an antibody test will be available for the public.

.

So I know John Bell, he was doing his DPhil when I started as a post doc in Oxford. Very nice chap, eager to please, chatty more than do-ey
If he says it will be a month, it means it will be at least 3 if not longer

 

[SARQPR]

Some countries beginning to see the true value of the EU...

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Big organisations like the EU, WHO, UN etc are notoriously slow to act on the ground in times of crisis. This isn't a political point...just a fact based on recent prior experience. It is a little like turning a supertanker

 

[sb_73]

Fair enough, Bob. And of course, I agree with your later post that where health is concerned, we're all human and equally important. Where leadership is concerned, it's probably true that the care Boris is getting is the very best the NHS can offer because as PM, his health and recovery could have an important effect on the health and welfare of the population he leads

So he should get better treatment than others because he is more important? Important in what context? There are different levels of care available to NHS patients? **** me, no one told me! What criteria are used to judge who gets the best treatment? If your nearest and dearest - let’s hypothesise of the same age and overall fitness level as Johnson, the same chance of pulling through, was in the cot next to him would you be happy if they said, sorry Johnson is more important so he’s getting the machine that goes Bing (we only have the one you know!) and the best doctors and nurses? *

As it happens I know the man leading Johnson’s care, Dr Duncan Wyncoll, worked with him many years ago, and he is, as far as I know, one of the best intensive care physicians around, and a world leader on some aspects of care. I’m pretty sure he isn’t trying that little bit harder because of the name on the chart at the bottom of the bed. Even though the fact that his name has been released to the media does up the pressure on him. Johnson was lucky that Downing St is near St Tommy’s.


* don’t worry, I’m not naive, I know that there are different standards of care and that your name, and privilege rank, makes a difference. I just don’t agree with it.

 

[BobbyD]

I think a leader, because so much turns on his or her being able to function properly for the nation's welfare, does come before the rest of us. As I said in an earlier post, not as an individual but as PM. And I would say the same if Corbyn or Sir Keir were PM. First priority, for the benefit of all, is to get the person at the helm back on his feet

to be honest, i think a lot of this stuff (running of the country) is a well oiled machine. It's more the party and the cabinet as a collective. Of course the PM goes and makes the decisions and has a long term view of how it should be done but what he can do and what the next can do is not something i believe is a massive difference.

for what its worth i think he's done okay and he's trying his best so far to united the nation but unfortunately, recent politics (brexit, labour vs tory and austerity) has split the nation in 2 and there will be many who won't care or listen to what he has to say.

you only need to look at this board as a microcosm of the politics of this.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

So I know John Bell, he was doing his DPhil when I started as a post doc in Oxford. Very nice chap, eager to please, chatty more than do-ey
If he says it will be a month, it means it will be at least 3 if not longer

So, as far as the Bell antibody test availability programme timescales are concerned, there’s some doubt about the Bell end?

 

[SARQPR]

to be honest, i think a lot of this stuff (running of the country) is a well oiled machine. It's more the party and the cabinet as a collective. Of course the PM goes and makes the decisions and has a long term view of how it should be done but what he can do and what the next can do is not something i believe is a massive difference.

for what its worth i think he's done okay and he's trying his best so far to united the nation but unfortunately, recent politics (brexit, labour vs tory and austerity) has split the nation in 2 and there will be many who won't care or listen to what he has to say.

you only need to look at this board as a microcosm of the politics of this.

good post

 

[sb_73]

So I know John Bell, he was doing his DPhil when I started as a post doc in Oxford. Very nice chap, eager to please, chatty more than do-ey
If he says it will be a month, it means it will be at least 3 if not longer

Laughed out loud Beth!

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

So he should get better treatment than others because he is more important? Important in what context? There are different levels of care available to NHS patients? **** me, no one told me! What criteria are used to judge who gets the best treatment? If your nearest and dearest - let’s hypothesise of the same age and overall fitness level as Johnson, the same chance of pulling through, was in the cot next to him would you be happy if they said, sorry Johnson is more important so he’s getting the machine that goes Bing (we only have the one you know!) and the best doctors and nurses? *

As it happens I know the man leading Johnson’s care, Dr Duncan Wyncoll, worked with him many years ago, and he is, as far as I know, one of the best intensive care physicians around, and a world leader on some aspects of care. I’m pretty sure he isn’t trying that little bit harder because of the name on the chart at the bottom of the bed.


* don’t worry, I’m not naive, I know that there are different standards of care and that your name, and privilege rank, makes a difference. I just don’t agree with it.

I think you've answered your point in your post script, Stan. There are differing standards in the NHS, hopefully not greatly differing. He will get the best doctors and nurses. It's not the name on the bottom of the bed, it's his position. And I don't think this privilege applies to any other politician that a PM in time of crisis. As an analogy, if there is a band of soldiers behind enemy lines, and only one member knows the way back to friendly forces, you give him greater protection than others for the benefit of all

 

[SARQPR]

Also worth remembering that the vast majority of day to day decisions in government are not made by the politicians but by the civil service
Politicians make the major policy decisions but much of the power thereafter has to be delegated
Same as in any large organisation, public or private

 

[sb_73]

Michael Gove is self isolating as a member of his family is displaying


I think you've answered your point in your post script, Stan. There are differing standards in the NHS, hopefully not greatly differing. He will get the best doctors and nurses. It's not the name on the bottom of the bed, it's his position. And I don't think this privilege applies to any other politician that a PM in time of crisis. As an analogy, if there is a band of soldiers behind enemy lines, and only one member knows the way back to friendly forces, you give him greater protection than others for the benefit of all

Wouldn’t you expect the one with the secret knowledge to share it?

So you would put Johnson as PM above the needs of your nearest and dearest. Interesting, have you told them that?

Displaying? Isn’t that what baboons do with their arses? Actually, makes sense chez Gove.

 

[ELLERS]

I think praise and criticism here are different here, Bob. If someone is seriously ill, and you want to sympathise and praise, that's positive. If you want to hope someone gets well because we're all human and frail at the end of the day, that's fine. But to take the opportunity to have a go at the bloke while he's ill is negative and, for me, says more about the poster than it does about the person commentated upon.

Spot on x 10 Goldie.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

to be honest, i think a lot of this stuff (running of the country) is a well oiled machine. It's more the party and the cabinet as a collective. Of course the PM goes and makes the decisions and has a long term view of how it should be done but what he can do and what the next can do is not something i believe is a massive difference.

for what its worth i think he's done okay and he's trying his best so far to united the nation but unfortunately, recent politics (brexit, labour vs tory and austerity) has split the nation in 2 and there will be many who won't care or listen to what he has to say.

you only need to look at this board as a microcosm of the politics of this.

Agree the split in the UK bit, Bobby. But not the idea that the country is run by the cabinet. PM has massive power compared to the bods around the Cabinet table. Look at Thatcher or Blair. The buck stops with them in a crisis. All experts report to them and their aid (eg Alistair Campbell)

 

[bobmid]

I think you've answered your point in your post script, Stan. There are differing standards in the NHS, hopefully not greatly differing. He will get the best doctors and nurses. It's not the name on the bottom of the bed, it's his position. And I don't think this privilege applies to any other politician that a PM in time of crisis. As an analogy, if there is a band of soldiers behind enemy lines, and only one member knows the way back to friendly forces, you give him greater protection than others for the benefit of all

I hope your analogy works and that Boris knows the way out of this situation. Somehow I very much doubt it

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Wouldn’t you expect the one with the secret knowledge to share it?

Displaying? Isn’t that what baboons do with their arses? Actually, makes sense chez Gove.

You can't always share stuff. If the soldier recognises which mountains to pass on the left or right etc, hard to describe it. Boris will have compiled a wealth of knowledge (including speaking to world leaders, medical experts etc) that no other single person has. I don't envy Dominic Raab.

Gove point was half-written. Then I decided he wasn't important enough to comment on!

 

[ELLERS]

Our understanding of the English language clearly differs.

Under your definitions and use of the word that’s a very ‘woke’ post Ellers.

SB I miss you on the politics thread because you are always so wrong. Please come back.