Off Topic Coronavirus

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ELLERS said:
Staines I have been saying since this thing started that this lockdown won’t be over for some time. They are now reporting June from some sources.

on another note I watched Sophie Ridge today.
Gove was pretty useless and didn't answer a single important question! And he was the government spokesman. <doh>
Blair... I think it was the first time he has ever talked sense. <applause>
Labour MP doctor who just finished a shift at hospital. <applause> No political point scoring from her even when goaded by Ridge.
Then a professor who basically said we are working on a vaccine and agreed with the June date. Interesting listening. :emoticon-0148-yes:

so basically it will all come down to testing and at the moment the government are saying 10k a day which I can’t see TBH. see you in 12.5 years when I get mine.
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Blimey Ellers, it took a worldwide pandemic for me to agree with you. Testing is the best weapon to fight this in my opinion but like you say, it could be years before the general public have access.
 
Does the majority on here think that extending the lockdown to sometime in June is a good idea?

For those that do, I would be interested in understanding what economic price they consider to be worth paying. Of course, every life matters and the cost in human lives brought about by a future and lengthy global depression is impossible to calculate, but put your hypothetical hats on.

Logic would suggest that, if it was possible to assign values to: (1) the global total number of deaths and associated misery attributable to the coronavirus epidemic by opening up the world again, and also (2) the global total number of deaths and misery attributable to a future worldwide depression that may follow the current course of action, one would opt for the lesser.

We know neither at the moment.

Seriously, how much of this are you prepared to take?
 
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Uber_Hoop said:
Does the majority on here think that extending the lockdown to sometime in June is a good idea?

For those that do, I would be interested in understanding what economic price they consider to be worth paying. Of course, every life matters and the cost in human lives brought about by a future and lengthy global depression is impossible to calculate, but put your hypothetical hats on.

Logic would suggest that, if it was possible to assign values to: (1) the global total number of deaths and associated misery attributable to the coronavirus epidemic by opening up the world again, and also (2) the global total number of deaths and misery attributable to a future worldwide depression that may follow the current course of action, one would opt for the lesser.

We know neither at the moment.

Seriously, how much of this are you prepared to take?
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I posted something similar.
There seems to be a growing resistance towards completely trashing all our futures.

As I said before, I can't decide which side of the argument I sit on.

The entire world seems to be aiming for this destructive destination.
 
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The Chinese government says that 2,535 people have died in Wuhan of the virus.

Families are now being allowed to collect the urns of lost loved ones from funeral homes in the city. Huge queues have formed, and one independent news website published a photo showing 3,500 urns outside one funeral home. The city has 8 such homes.

Maths tells me not to trust any model based on Chinese statistics.

The news does not look good today. Restrictions will last until the end of May at least. The anti body tests will not actually be available until May according to the people who actually make them. We are way short of even 10,000 antigen tests a day, which we were promised 2 weeks ago and it is clear from the German experience that testing is key to keeping a lid on infections - too late now I fear.

We have 8000 ventilators. We think we need 30,000. We have ordered, so far, another 8000 (Dyson jumped the gun). From what I read once a patient gets on a ventilator they will be on it for 10 to 21 days if they survive (still no info on how many who get ventilated survive), meaning that the ventilator turnover is very low.

Who is going to staff the thousands of extra beds being put into exhibition centres?

Apparently our senior politicians, used to shouting at officials face to face, are really struggling with remote working.

Sorry for the negative tone. Getting increasingly worried, not by the virus, but by the response.
 
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Uber_Hoop said:
Does the majority on here think that extending the lockdown to sometime in June is a good idea?

For those that do, I would be interested in understanding what economic price they consider to be worth paying. Of course, every life matters and the cost in human lives brought about by a future and lengthy global depression is impossible to calculate, but put your hypothetical hats on.

Logic would suggest that, if it was possible to assign values to: (1) the global total number of deaths and associated misery attributable to the coronavirus epidemic by opening up the world again, and also (2) the global total number of deaths and misery attributable to a future worldwide depression that may follow the current course of action, one would opt for the lesser.

We know neither at the moment.

Seriously, how much of this are you prepared to take?
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I incline towards relaxing restrictions sooner. Get the tests out!
 
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The antibody testing kits were to be ready in days, that was last week. Dont expect to see these any time in the near future yet it could be the key factor in getting the economy going again with people back to work. The plan seems like, lock up till June (ish), social distancing until October (ish), then Winter sets back in and a new wave hits us!
 
bobmid said:
The tests are key. Why the **** are we so far behind with testing?!?!?!?!
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Germany are good at making stuff apparently.

We’ve chosen not to be part of EU-wide procurement which is a purely ideologically-driven decision that will cost lives and put frontline NHS staff at risk. For all the calls not to criticise the government, pull together etc. they haven’t got close to doing everything in their power to reciprocate.
 
sb_73 said:
The Chinese government says that 2,535 people have died in Wuhan of the virus.

Families are now being allowed to collect the urns of lost loved ones from funeral homes in the city. Huge queues have formed, and one independent news website published a photo showing 3,500 urns outside one funeral home. The city has 8 such homes.

Maths tells me not to trust any model based on Chinese statistics.

The news does not look good today. Restrictions will last until the end of May at least. The anti body tests will not actually be available until May according to the people who actually make them. We are way short of even 10,000 antigen tests a day, which we were promised 2 weeks ago and it is clear from the German experience that testing is key to keeping a lid on infections - too late now I fear.

We have 8000 ventilators. We think we need 30,000. We have ordered, so far, another 8000 (Dyson jumped the gun). From what I read once a patient gets on a ventilator they will be on it for 10 to 21 days if they survive (still no info on how many who get ventilated survive), meaning that the ventilator turnover is very low.

Who is going to staff the thousands of extra beds being put into exhibition centres?

Apparently our senior politicians, used to shouting at officials face to face, are really struggling with remote working.

Sorry for the negative tone. Getting increasingly worried, not by the virus, but by the response.
Click to expand...

I've long thought the Chinese figures don't ring true, this clearly shows that. Sadly, I think Spain and Italy have to be the yardstick we should realistically use. Also I read that Germany are classifying many deaths as 'pneumonia' rather than the virus. The reality is too many people are dying..
 
Morning fitness fans.

What do you all make of the reclassification of covid 19, to no longer being an HCID and all the characteristics thereof?

The only thing that I can think of is to do with future legal challenges about where covid patients were treated perhaps. Beyond that, my suspicions are on high alert.

In answer to Uber’s question, the positive curve and growth of my disbelief is exponential.

This is flu like.

The vast majority of those who get it will experience no or mild symptoms.

The majority of those who experience greater than mild symptoms will not need hospital treatment, as per flu.

This doesn’t equal the vastly disproportionate economic response. Decades to come will experience austerity that dwarfs that which we’ve had in recent times. The number of deaths as a result and the lives affected will not be comparable with this flu like virus.

We need to see the figures for March’s mortality, we need accurate figure, we need accurate info on how much covid 19 played a role in the various deaths it’s been attributed to, we need accurate figures on age and health of those who have died.

Things don’t stack up for me, not by a long shot. I’m surprised more people are not seriously concerned about what the **** is going on, instead, the vast majority have bought the fear sold to them by the disgraceful media corporations and have asked for their liberties to be taken away from them.

Am I nuts?
 
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The wet market practises in China (now open again having given the world Corona virus) and the extreme cruelty shown to animals including dogs and cats, means I don't want our government to deal with China commercially until they put their house in order. We don't go ahead with 5G contracts with China. Trump is right on this one. China, as currently led, should be treated as pariahs.
 
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West WindsR said:
Germany are good at making stuff apparently.

We’ve chosen not to be part of EU-wide procurement which is a purely ideologically-driven decision that will cost lives and put frontline NHS staff at risk. For all the calls not to criticise the government, pull together etc. they haven’t got close to doing everything in their power to reciprocate.
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Ping!
 
Woodyhoopleson said:
Morning fitness fans.

What do you all make of the reclassification of covid 19, to no longer being an HCID and all the characteristics thereof?

The only thing that I can think of is to do with future legal challenges about where covid patients were treated perhaps. Beyond that, my suspicions are on high alert.

In answer to Uber’s question, the positive curve and growth of my disbelief is exponential.

This is flu like.

The vast majority of those who get it will experience no or mild symptoms.

The majority of those who experience greater than mild symptoms will not need hospital treatment, as per flu.

This doesn’t equal the vastly disproportionate economic response. Decades to come will experience austerity that dwarfs that which we’ve had in recent times. The number of deaths as a result and the lives affected will not be comparable with this flu like virus.

We need to see the figures for March’s mortality, we need accurate figure, we need accurate info on how much covid 19 played a role in the various deaths it’s been attributed to, we need accurate figures on age and health of those who have died.

Things don’t stack up for me, not by a long shot. I’m surprised more people are not seriously concerned about what the **** is going on, instead, the vast majority have bought the fear sold to them by the disgraceful media corporations and have asked for their liberties to be taken away from them.

Am I nuts?
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In a word Woody, No.

I have felt like this for the last couple of weeks, but to say so and put your head above the parapet risks being called a twunt. This will make the GFC seems like a walk in the park. The economic, political and social impacts will be profound; these will not be fully felt for a while. I have read (perhaps on here, i have read so much from many places!) that the response to this crisis is to either save the lives of the elderly to sacrifice the future of the young or vice versa. It will be difficult to do both. We are currently well on the path of the former. Things are going to be grim, very grim. I hope I am proved wrong.

This graph sums it all up for me.

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Sooperhoop said:
I've long thought the Chinese figures don't ring true, this clearly shows that. Sadly, I think Spain and Italy have to be the yardstick we should realistically use. Also I read that Germany are classifying many deaths as 'pneumonia' rather than the virus. The reality is too many people are dying..
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The implication being that it’s just as bad in Germany as elsewhere? I don’t think so, they have capacity to import critical cases from both France and Italy. They started testing aggressively in January, and traced contacts of the few initial cases very effectively. Not to say that things won’t get worse there, but there is a tangible difference in the way they have handled things.

Interesting contrasts elsewhere as well. Sweden, where politicians cannot influence public health measures by law, has gone for the light touch on the basis that Swedes follow advice. Their neighbours the Danes have gone for heavy restrictions. Deaths in Sweden, though still low compared to other nations, are climbing many times faster than in Denmark.

The Netherlands had an initial strategy of ‘herd immunity’ which they have also abandoned.


Stroller said:
I incline towards relaxing restrictions sooner. Get the tests out!
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But relax only when we can test properly and see the results of the testing? Agree, if the results indicate large numbers of already infected and recovered people, and we can do humane and supportive ‘lockdown’ for the vulnerable and ensure that the NHS gets all the support needed in any scenario. The big risk to me in the short term is a collapse of the NHS which will impact the health of all those who are ill, not just those with the virus or vulnerable to it. Long term it’s economic collapse with societal disruption and potentially unrest.

As Uber says what’s a life worth? Obviously one life has a value, it can be monetised. Who dares do it? Not me.
 
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