Off Topic Coronavirus

[qprbeth]

I thought you said you shouldn't be able to get blood clots and low platelets at the same time

Exactly Kiwi.

Platelets are part of the clotting mechanism...if you have low platelets your blood doesn't clot so well.

It is very odd phenomenon...and as said before something similar has been seen with the contraceptive pill.


But again at a very low frequency.


As Stan I think said before...there is a risk with absolutely everything you take....

But the risk of being ill with Covid is far far far higher than the risk of side effects from the vaccine.


We are also not even discussinf onhere one of our the favourite topic of the effect on the economy if we have to go back into lockdown because people do not take up the vaccine.

We are on the point of getting our freedom back.
Let's not ruin it Kiwi

 

[qprbeth]

I thought you said you shouldn't be able to get blood clots and low platelets at the same time

Kiwi I am talking about relative risk on going up ladders...and not platelet counts

 

[kiwiqpr]

Kiwi I am talking about relative risk on going up ladders...and not platelet counts

As someone who was Dangerously perched on top of an extendable step ladder with a chainsaw yesterday it's not something I am going to comment on

 

[BobbyD]

Kiwi I am talking about relative risk on going up ladders...and not platelet counts

Tbf it is worrying that this vaccine might be causing something that wouldnt happen (low platelet blood clot death).

As mentioned, theres a risk with everything we do but why would you take az if you have other vaccines thay do not have that history or if you are a 16 year old kid who probably has the same chance of dying with covid as the vaccine?

 

[qprbeth]

Tbf it is worrying that this vaccine might be causing something that wouldnt happen (low platelet blood clot death).

As mentioned, theres a risk with everything we do but why would you take az if you have other vaccines thay do not have that history or if you are a 16 year old kid who probably has the same chance of dying with covid as the vaccine?

Can I point out we don't have a relatively high amount of Pfizer..
It is not an option.

If we wait for Pfizer it will be months and months .
..people will die from Covid.
the economy will suffer for even longer.
And the virus will mutate.

It is not a sensible suggestions for a 17 in 25,000,000 risk

 

[QPR Oslo]

Problem is if Health Authorities arent being honest about the numbers of people getting these serious side effects, are holding back this information, they could be more common than has been thought. The EMA reported 60 odd cases in their meeting last week, but that was already a week out of date, there were many more. If also data is not quickly shared between Countries it will take longer to know who is at risk. Many large Countries across Europe are only giving AZ to the elderly now because it seems the clotting has occured in working age people, 3 Countries at least have it on total hold until more is known about who if any are more at risk than others. In Norway they use Pfizer for the elderly, and had used AZ for critical workers on the medical front line, a few of whom sadly lost their lives to the vaccine. So that younger people who died of AZ vaccine could easily be because they were the ones given it, not necessarily more susceptible, and all age groups could be equally at risk. We are lucky that there is a selection of vaccines, health workers in Norway are now getting Moderna instead of AZ. Danger is AZ is bring ordered for many Countries because it is cheap who may not get any or many other good choices, and these Countries are not currently getting all the information about the safety of the AZ vaccine, or others.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

Perhaps it's a symptom of the world we live in. Secrecy over the clot deaths in the UK does neither the government nor AZ any good in the long run as there are enough siren voices out there to tell us that apart from it being an infringement of civil liberty to take a vaccine for an illness which is fake news it will also kill you in the process. What. For certain? Very likely? If the odds are 17 in 25 million I'll take my chances. I'll let you know if I get an uncontrollable urge to buy anything new produced by Bill Gates.

 

[mapleranger]

Mrs Maple has had the Pfizer vaccine. My brother-in-law got Moderna. Mrs Maple had a slight reaction to her vaccine lasting about 6 hours - the brother-in-law was a littler more tired. But there is a shortage of the mRNA vaccines in my part of this country and they want to use what is around for younger (i.e. 12-15 yrs) so it is probable that it will be spoken for when I get the jab (which for the mRNA vaccines are being doled out by age group and mine is at least 2 weeks away yet.

I have a bit of an option to get the AZ vaccine and probably will although I will take a few days to review the effectiveness of all of them against the variances. Just can't wait too long or they may all be gone. Our PM says the best vaccine to take is the first one offered to you and while I don't think he is too much of a scientist, I agree with him

 

[rangercol]

For comparison.
Falls from ladders account for an average of 14 deaths per year (averaged over 6 years). According to HSE statistics, falls from ladders account for almost a third of all injuries and cost the UK economy £60 million every year, as well as being the number one cause of workplaces deaths.


Shall we ban ladders

With respect Beth, that's a different argument.
People dying from blood clots who happen to have had a vaccine is a statistical coincidence.
A vaccine actually being proven to CAUSE blood clots, as Oslo is claiming, is a totally different thing.

 

[qprbeth]

With respect Col...that is my point.
At the moment we do not know if the connection is causal or coincidence.

And even if it is causal... should we ban the vaccine as the risk is minute (7 deaths in around 15-20 million doses)....like "if people did not go up ladders, they would not fall of them" ...so if we banned them no one would die from falling off them.....but we would not build or mend anything either.


There is an estimate that with out vaccination roll out program another 20-30,000 people would have died.

No I am not disputing we need to get to the bottom of this, as it seems to be a quite distinct group of people/ clusters of deaths. In a previous post I tried to explain the statistics of clusters or "perceived" clusters. It is a difficult topic.

But I worry about this negative feedback, as it will cut the take-up rate and could send us back into lockdown next autumn..

 

[qprbeth]

Perhaps it's a symptom of the world we live in. Secrecy over the clot deaths in the UK does neither the government nor AZ any good in the long run as there are enough siren voices out there to tell us that apart from it being an infringement of civil liberty to take a vaccine for an illness which is fake news it will also kill you in the process. What. For certain? Very likely? If the odds are 17 in 25 million I'll take my chances. I'll let you know if I get an uncontrollable urge to buy anything new produced by Bill Gates.

What secrecy it's on the BBC web page?


Ok no one trusts that so it is secret!

 

[SW Ranger]

With respect Col...that is my point.
At the moment we do not know if the connection is causal or coincidence.

And even if it is causal... should we ban the vaccine as the risk is minute (7 deaths in around 15-20 million doses)....like "if people did not go up ladders, they would not fall of them" ...so if we banned them no one would die from falling off them.....but we would not build or mend anything either.


There is an estimate that with out vaccination roll out program another 20-30,000 people would have died.

No I am not disputing we need to get to the bottom of this, as it seems to be a quite distinct group of people/ clusters of deaths. In a previous post I tried to explain the statistics of clusters or "perceived" clusters. It is a difficult topic.

But I worry about this negative feedback, as it will cut the take-up rate and could send us back into lockdown next autumn..

Completely agree. Research shows that we have 38.4m registered cars in the UK. Safety statisticians say that you have a 1in 556 chance of dying as a pedestrian. The dilemma here is do we ban walking within the vicinity of cars (as it’s the mostly due to car driver incidents not careless pedestrians) or take the wider action, including other car associated deaths, and ban cars completely. Which would you choose? Neither I’m sure. So we allow people from 17y/o to control a 1,500kg metal missile around our streets and walkways.

We clearly have to manage the risk. Without the vaccine we could lose 20-30,000 lives; with it there is the possibility of 30 or so incidences of clotting possibly leading to death. I’m with Beth on this - we do need to dig deeper and find the connection if there is one; but the worry is we scaremonger people to step away from protecting themselves for a virulent disease, possible infection (and death) of others and/or possible death to themselves.

 

[rangercol]

With respect Col...that is my point.
At the moment we do not know if the connection is causal or coincidence.

And even if it is causal... should we ban the vaccine as the risk is minute (7 deaths in around 15-20 million doses)....like "if people did not go up ladders, they would not fall of them" ...so if we banned them no one would die from falling off them.....but we would not build or mend anything either.


There is an estimate that with out vaccination roll out program another 20-30,000 people would have died.

No I am not disputing we need to get to the bottom of this, as it seems to be a quite distinct group of people/ clusters of deaths. In a previous post I tried to explain the statistics of clusters or "perceived" clusters. It is a difficult topic.

But I worry about this negative feedback, as it will cut the take-up rate and could send us back into lockdown next autumn..

I think we agree.
I took the AZ vaccine knowing there MAY be a slight risk because I don't want to get covid.
If I don't want to fall off a ladder, I don't go up them.
Many, many people won't have that choice with an AZ vaccine and will probably refuse it, especially with a lot of European countries limiting its use.
Even if a risk is proven and is shown to be millions to one, I'll take my 2nd AZ vaccine, but I fear many, many people won't, especially if, as Oslo is alleging, possible links to blood clots are being covered up.

 

[rangercol]

Completely agree. Research shows that we have 38.4 registered cars in the UK. Safety statisticians say that you have a 1in 556 chance of dying as a pedestrian. The dilemma here is do we ban walking within the vicinity of cars (as it’s the mostly due to car driver incidents not careless pedestrians) or take the wider action, including other car associated deaths, and ban cars completely. Which would you choose? Neither I’m sure. So we allow people from 17y/o to control a 1,500kg metal missile around our streets and walkways.

We clearly have to manage the risk. Without the vaccine we could lose 20-30,000 lives; with it there is the possibility of 30 or so incidences of clotting possibly leading to death. I’m with Beth on this - we do need to dig deeper and find the connection if there is one; but the worry is we scaremonger people to step away from protecting themselves for a virulent disease, possible infection (and death) of others and/or possible death to themselves.

Completely agree.

 

[qprbeth]

With respect to those who are worried, but I do think this is an extension of the anti-vax campaign.

"It is all being covered up"...
We have essentially been using this vaccine for 3-4 months, results and follow ups and centralisation of results do take time.....

But I would say, the British people on the ground would not hide or allow to be hidden something like a cluster of unexplained deaths they see .

Some one like Stan, would be getting reports via his pharma connection.

AZ would pull the vaccine to avoid huge compensation demands if they knew something

I do not think there is a conspiracy.

Until there is real proof...please do not let this get out of hand

 

[Stroller]

With respect to those who are worried, but I do think this is an extension of the anti-vax campaign.

"It is all being covered up"...
We have essentially been using this vaccine for 3-4 months, results and follow ups and centralisation of results do take time.....

But I would say, the British people on the ground would not hide or allow to be hidden something like a cluster of unexplained deaths they see .

Some one like Stan, would be getting reports via his pharma connection.

AZ would pull the vaccine to avoid huge compensation demands if they knew something

I do not think there is a conspiracy.

Until there is real proof...please do not let this get out of hand

Weren't the vaccine producers indemnified from compensation claims?

 

[qprbeth]

Weren't the vaccine producers indemnified from compensation claims?

Might be from stated side effects, but they would not escape gross negligence, and certainly would be responsible if they covered up any results.

Another reason to believe they are not "covering up"

 

[Frome-Ranger]

Re the proposed passport system it looks like they've got their needed and not needed around the wrong way.

If this proves accurate it's shameful. We know there was an uptick in cases following 'Eat Out to Help Out' so we know there is clearly a risk in those environments and yet pubs and restaurants will be exempt from the passport scheme. But places like cinemas and theatres where I don't think there has been any attributable cases you will need a passport.

I'm not against the passports per se but this Stinks of more corruption to me. A packed pub is safer than a half full stadium? Bull ****.

The cinema was (aside from my own home) the place where I felt safest last year, the precautions they but in place were brilliant.

 

[qprbeth]

Absolutely I went twice to the Rs last December...and really really felt safe it was so organised.

I saw two films...so safe... mainly because we were the only two people in their both times ( midweek afternoon).

Agree wholeheartedly...a pub on a Friday at 10.30pm.
Breeding ground for all manner of things..

 

[SW Ranger]

Absolutely I went twice to the Rs last December...and really really felt safe it was so organised.

I saw two films...so safe... mainly because we were the only two people in their both times ( midweek afternoon).

Agree wholeheartedly...a pub on a Friday at 10.30pm.
Breeding ground for all manner of things..

Completely agree. You would only want to be in areas where others have been considerate enough to have had their vaccine.
Surely that’s a fair expectation and nothing to do with ‘nanny state’ restrictions. Pubs should definitely expect people to be vaccinated.

I see it as taking a reasonable step to try something than to ignore it and let people go where they want, how they want. I know there will be those who say it is restricting their freedoms, but I’ve had enough of restrictions and would be happy to see some method of control and expectation of people around me to be honest. It’s a small price to pay in the short term.